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Old 25-01-2011, 22:17   #31
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... The latter vessel shall use the danger signal prescribed in Rule 34(d) if in doubt as to the intention of the crossing vessel.
That's what the button on the Kahlenberg controol on the bottom row, second from the right, is for.

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Old 25-01-2011, 22:24   #32
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Definition of crossing

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Originally Posted by Bash View Post
Read the rule again: (d) A vessel shall not cross a narrow passage or fairway if such crossing impedes the passage of a vessel which can safely navigate only within such channel or fairway. The latter vessel may use the sound signal prescribed in Rule 34(d) if in doubt as to the intention of the crossing vessel.

Now we get into the definition of what it means to cross the channel.

Does crossing mean any course not within some number of degrees from paralell to the axis of the channel?

Or does crossing mean passing across the channel from an origin on one side to a destination on the other?

Is a vessel zig-zagging along the axis of the channel crossing or following the channel? Over the course of hours it seems to me that it would be following. On a shorter time scale it would be harder to determine in the instance from outside observers point of view.

Another issue would be did the powering vessel make any sounds as it should have?
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Old 25-01-2011, 22:29   #33
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I thought crossing the channel is crossing mid-channel. Wouldn't matter at what angle. Moving from the right side to the left side of the channel, or the opposite, is crossing the channel.
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Old 25-01-2011, 22:33   #34
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I thought crossing the channel is crossing mid-channel. Wouldn't matter at what angle. Moving from the right side to the left side of the channel, or the opposite, is crossing the channel.
Makes sense. I like it.

Does that mean a vessel short tacking up one side only is not crossing just following the channel in a zig-zig fashion?
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Old 25-01-2011, 22:40   #35
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Surely 9a covers the point about following the course of a channel. Thou shalt keep as near to the outer limit which lies on the stb side. Zig Zagging or sailing / driving obliquely up the channel, or driving down the middle (axis) is not the way to follow the course of a channel.
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Old 25-01-2011, 22:48   #36
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The OP says "fairly wide fairway" - so I guess that's narrow channels out of the discussion.

No mention has been made of either boat displaying a cylinder, so that's constrained by draft out as well.

So, straight forward crossing situation.

But the situation doesn't make sense to me as as described.

At first I had the power boat running down wind with the land on her starboard side, the sail boat tacking upwind, the land on her port side. So approaching each other as Daddle describes.

But the first tack was "directly across his bow". A statement which seems to ring true as he felt the need to slow down to avoid collision. He then speeded up, but the sailboat crossed the bow again. How could this be? Surely with both going in the opposite direction they would have passed each other after the first tack?

The only way I can get it to make sense is if they are both going down wind and the sail boat is gybing down in front of it.
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Old 25-01-2011, 22:53   #37
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Surely 9a covers the point about following the course of a channel. Thou shalt keep as near to the outer limit which lies on the stb side. Zig Zagging or sailing / driving obliquely up the channel, or driving down the middle (axis) is not the way to follow the course of a channel.

If the channel runs dead upwind, zig-zagging for a sailing craft is the nearest you are going to get to following the channel's course.

Or is the implication that vessels are not allowed to sail in channels? Might work in the US but not in a lot of 3rd world countries where motors are not ubiquitous (sp?), and the rules are meant to work globally.
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Old 25-01-2011, 23:00   #38
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If the channel runs dead upwind, zig-zagging for a sailing craft is the nearest you are going to get to following the channel's course.

Or is the implication that vessels are not allowed to sail in channels? Might work in the US but not in a lot of 3rd world countries where motors are not ubiquitous (sp?), and the rules are meant to work globally.
No I don't think the rules suggest that a sailing vessel cannot use a channel, but if they do then they need to follow the course of it. So if the wind does not allow that, and they have to tack or jibe up or down it, then either stick the fan on, or get out of it. Not you - the sailing vessel
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Old 25-01-2011, 23:04   #39
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No I don't think the rules suggest that a sailing vessel cannot use a channel, but if they do then they need to follow the course of it. So if the wind does not allow that, and they have to tack or jibe up or down it, then either stick the fan on, or get out of it. Not you - the sailing vessel
'stick the fan on'. Please explain, I don't understand.
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Old 25-01-2011, 23:06   #40
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My presumption is that everyone else is clueless as far as navigation rules are concerned unless they individually demonstrate otherwise. That's how I operate.
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Old 25-01-2011, 23:06   #41
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The OP says "fairly wide fairway" - so I guess that's narrow channels out of the discussion.

No mention has been made of either boat displaying a cylinder, so that's constrained by draft out as well.

So, straight forward crossing situation.

But the situation doesn't make sense to me as as described.

At first I had the power boat running down wind with the land on her starboard side, the sail boat tacking upwind, the land on her port side. So approaching each other as Daddle describes.

But the first tack was "directly across his bow". A statement which seems to ring true as he felt the need to slow down to avoid collision. He then speeded up, but the sailboat crossed the bow again. How could this be? Surely with both going in the opposite direction they would have passed each other after the first tack?

The only way I can get it to make sense is if they are both going down wind and the sail boat is gybing down in front of it.

Maybe they are both going upwind ? ? ?
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Old 25-01-2011, 23:12   #42
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Maybe they are both going upwind ? ? ?
But the OP says that the sailing boat passes the bow of the power boat on starboard tack and then goes well to starboard of the power boat

This is impossible if they are both going upwind

Edit: Actually it doesn't work if they're both down wind either - I'm confused
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Old 25-01-2011, 23:13   #43
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'stick the fan on'. Please explain, I don't understand.
Sorry, for fan, read propellor
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Old 25-01-2011, 23:15   #44
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This is easy to say when not being there, but I'd, as the engine-powered boat, have tooted twice and turned to port to pass behind the sailboat when it was passing from left to right in front of me.
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Old 25-01-2011, 23:57   #45
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But the OP says that the sailing boat passes the bow of the power boat on starboard tack and then goes well to starboard of the power boat

This is impossible if they are both going upwind

Edit: Actually it doesn't work if they're both down wind either - I'm confused

Then they must be approaching each other - sailboat upwind, motorboat downwind. It could be the reverse too if "tack" was erroneously stated instead of "gybe". We aren't specifically told which tack the sailboat was on, just that it was heading to the starboard side of the motorboat.
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