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Old 01-02-2011, 19:15   #181
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Do you give up?

Farwell's rules of the nautical road - Google Books

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Old 01-02-2011, 20:13   #182
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Like they sa in the Caribbean

" Da bigger da boat, de righter de way"

Be careful out there,
Steve W.
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Old 01-02-2011, 20:46   #183
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Good find. From the google preview, it seems like a well-written book. Of course I can afford to say that - it agrees with my take on 8(f). I see also in the acknowledgements, they note that Capt's Cockcroft and Syms both contributed to the research.
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Old 09-02-2011, 13:45   #184
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23 years a USCG officer. 10 as a professional captain after retiring. Taught Captain's licensing for 5 years and general boating safety for 10.

I think rule 9 clearly trumps many other rules... but there's always gray areas. That's why there are hearing officers and not computers reviewing incidents.

Lately the USCG has faulted professional captains even when they were clearly in the right...due to the premise - pros should know better. While that wants to make me puke....it's reality and no matter how we all interpret the rules....till it hits a hearing room...you never know what rule will apply or trump another.

Sad but true in these days of political correctness.
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Old 05-05-2011, 04:24   #185
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Re: Sailboat Right of Way

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Below is what I sent to the RYA legal staff....
So it really is a complicated question. Please tell us your opinion. Thousands of Cruisers Forum participants are waiting with bated breath.
It's been 3 months, have you had a response from the RYA?
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Old 05-05-2011, 06:05   #186
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Re: Sailboat Right of Way

Just to clarify, the 45 foot sailboat sounded the danger signal twice with no response or resultant action from the smaller vessel.

Bob
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Old 05-05-2011, 06:24   #187
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Re: Sailboat Right of Way

I generally use the Cockcroft and Lameijer as my reference for such problems. As they were deeply involved in the drafting of the revisions of the regulations, I would take their opinion over most.

The 'not impede' rule is, to my mind dreadfully worded, but another data point for you: I had a chat with one of the coast guards at a boat show about it - these are the guys who monitor the Dover Straits TSS and his take was that as a sailboat you should be avoiding getting into the close quarters situation in the first place, but if you do get there, the power boat gives way to the sailboat, i.e. rule 18 applies. As he is the one triggering the prosecution, I'd give his opinion significant weight.

This ties in with my understanding of Cockcroft and Lameijer's interpretation so it is what I follow.
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Old 05-05-2011, 07:47   #188
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Re: Sailboat Right of Way

Pretty clear to me…if the larger vessel is in a narrow channel and needs to be…crossing traffic is the give way…..Rule 9

Traffic schemes Rule 10 are a little less clear…vessels NOT using them are supposed to stay clear…but if a sailing vessel chooses to cross…I AM ASSUMING…that the reason rule 10 is less emphatic about the crossing vessel being the give way is that most traffic schemes must be designed wide enough with sufficient water on either side (not an absolute) that a large vessel using the scheme does have latitude to do some maneuvering to a stand on vessel.
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Old 05-05-2011, 08:06   #189
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Re: Sailboat Right of Way

You have to take into consideration that smaller craft may be a weekend warrior and has no knowledge of the rules in any shape or form. He probably thinks that there are no rules on open waters. Thus he is sailing/powerboating with his head up his Arse.

Would have said Ass, but that would be insulting to all of the mules in this world.
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Old 05-05-2011, 09:00   #190
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Re: Sailboat Right of Way

Sailboat won.
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per the arguments against...
-You are still pretending ship VS boat when the case is boat vs boat.
-The "larger" BOAT may be a weekend warrior with his head up his a$$.
-Tooting a danger signal is "new info" per the OP and anyways,does not trump the rules of the road.When used by a maneuverable BOAT,(a mere 45' !)it's kind of a joke.
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Old 05-05-2011, 09:08   #191
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Re: Sailboat Right of Way

And yet that 45'er doesn't have brakes either.

It's not any smarter for a bicycle to pull out in front of a minivan, than it is to pull out in front of a semi. Either way the driver will be held at fault for not stopping, (even though the laws of physics prohibit him), and YOU WILL BE DEAD.

Wether it is legal may be relevant, but it is not even relevant of wether it is wise.
FACT is if you are in a small or slow moving vessel that can come to a complete stop at any time due to unforseen wind shifts, ...STAY OUT OF THE BLUDI WAY!!!
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Old 05-05-2011, 10:33   #192
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Re: Sailboat Right of Way

If the "20ft" sailboat is the overtaking vessel, has anyone take into account it's hull speed and the distance it has to travel compared to the "45ft." vessel?
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Old 05-05-2011, 11:13   #193
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Re: Sailboat Right of Way

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If the "20ft" sailboat is the overtaking vessel, has anyone take into account it's hull speed and the distance it has to travel compared to the "45ft." vessel?
if it is the "overtaking" vessel...it is DEFINITELY the give way vessel...what would it's speed and distance matter?

ULTIMATELY BOTH SKIPPPERS are responsible for avoiding a collision...but that doesn't relieve the give way of their duty to not impede
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Old 05-05-2011, 13:09   #194
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Re: Sailboat Right of Way

IN my opinion having read the whole thread there are two sceanarios( leaving aside the Rule (9) situation)

If the large Motor sailing vessel, came upon the crossing maneouver from astern the sailing boat ( ie abaft of the 22.5) then it is the over taking vessel and should keep clear of teh sailing vessel until well clear. It should not have slowed in that situation, it did not keep clear. if it is not coming from astern it is a crossing situation and should be the give way vessel. If its keeping clear it should not have stopped, if is the give way vessel, it can act in any way to avoid collision.

However the sailing vessel is the stand on vessel, it must maintain course and speed, which it did not, it matter not that the fairway impedes it. it altered its course to potentially cause a collision. It could easily have tacked and sailed under the power boat, even if that meant loosing ground.( which of course sailboats are loath to due)

Hence both vessels share blame

The second sceanario , is where the intial course of teh sailboat coming up from behind and intending to cross the powerboat, the sailboat should keep clear as its the over taking vessel . It clearly didnt do this and further then broke the rules by tacking into a potenial collision. This is not a common sceranario as mostly vessels under power are faster, but it can happen. ( especially with dinghies).

Dave

Its is unfortunately common to see yachties mis-applying the sail over power as much as it is that mo-bos do too.

Dave
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Old 05-05-2011, 13:22   #195
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Re: Sailboat Right of Way

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Originally Posted by HappySeagull View Post
Sailboat won.Attachment 26986
per the arguments against...
-You are still pretending ship VS boat when the case is boat vs boat.
-The "larger" BOAT may be a weekend warrior with his head up his a$$.
-Tooting a danger signal is "new info" per the OP and anyways,does not trump the rules of the road.When used by a maneuverable BOAT,(a mere 45' !)it's kind of a joke.
My sentiments exactly.
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