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Old 12-03-2012, 05:56   #1
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Rules for US Boat Sailing in Europe - Not Found

Hi All,

I am new here. Living in Brussels, french (and other ) speaking. I have purchased a US boat in Turkey, I understand the Turkish rules, it's ok.
VAT on the boat is not paid and I am european citizen, I tried to pay the VAT in Greece but they could't determine the price to pay and did not accept my offer, strange but true ! So, I will register her now in Delaware and later somewhere else in Europe !

Anyway, I would like to sail her this year in Europe waters going to Greece, Italy and Croatia (will join Europe in JUly 2013, I think).

I have not found precise information on the rules for US boats to sail in Europe. I am looking for better information:

- Is it true that US boats can stay 18 months in Europe, then have to leave, and could come back after ? time ?
- Is the out of water time also counted ?
- A transit log is needed in Greece, I guess; For Italy ? For Croatia ?
- Any other harassment ?

I would appreciate websites or forum links.

I am also looking for a place close to Bari to winter the boat, any hint ?
Monopoli looks nice to me, but no phone for the boatyard there.

Thank you in advance,
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Old 12-03-2012, 06:54   #2
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Helloooo I am new here is well. From what I have researched it does not matter what flag your boat flies but your residency. If an eu resident brings a boat into the eu you he must pay the vat at the first port of entry. I hear that the Azores have the cheapest vat percentage. I have dual citizenship but I must hide that fact if I sailed to europe or pay the vat. Good luck.
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Old 12-03-2012, 08:57   #3
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Re: Rules for US boat sailing in Europe not found

"So, I will register her now in Delaware"

Will you now? A Delaware state registration is not the same as US federal documentation. You may find some countries will not recognize it, and will ask you leave immediately. US federal documentation is available only to US citizens and to corporations which are majority-owned by US citizens, the same way that flagging a vessel is restricted by pretty much all nations.

If you try to dodge the normal legalities of titling and flagging a vessel, you run substantial risks. You no longer have a "US vessel", that status terminated when the last US owner sold it. You may find that when someone figures out the vessel was purchased and not promptly and properly re-titled afterwards, that they assess fines and penalties in you for failure to pay taxes in a timely manner.

I would strongly suggest that you get proper advice from a broker or the appropriate agencies for whatever jurisdiction the boat is in, or can properly be flagged in. Good luck.
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Old 12-03-2012, 11:32   #4
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Re: Rules for US boat sailing in Europe not found

You can register in Sierra Leone so you could leave Greece, and then pay the VAT and reregister it when you enter the next country...

Assuming that you're an EU citizen, why don't you want to register it in Belgium if you're willing to pay VAT?
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Old 12-03-2012, 20:08   #5
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If you are an EU tax resident and you want to cruise EU countries you must pay the VAT. The penalties are high and the hassle is huge. Arrange to pay the VAT in your home country. This is technically the law. ( on"means of transport" ie boats, over 7m the VAT is paid in the " country of destination ")



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Old 13-03-2012, 02:51   #6
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Re: Rules for US Boat Sailing in Europe - Not Found

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
If you are an EU tax resident and you want to cruise EU countries you must pay the VAT. The penalties are high and the hassle is huge. Arrange to pay the VAT in your home country. This is technically the law. ( on"means of transport" ie boats, over 7m the VAT is paid in the " country of destination ")



Dave
Hi All,

Thank you for your advices, I will check with a broker, you are right. I will check Delaware acceptation. In this scheme, the boat would be owned by a company created in Delaware, company owned by...

I am willing to pay the VAT, I will try it in Italy. Now about the VAT mechanism in Europe. VAT can be paid in any E.C. country where they can SEE the boat; is currently in Turkey (not in E.C.).
Belgium VAT asked to bring the boat to tax it, that is 3500 km by road. Pictures, expertise do not help !
Greece saw it but could not tax it, their register is going back to 1997, not 1995 the boat built year !
Even if you want to pay, it is a nightmare. Bureaucrats rule Europe, this is why I badly need creative solutions.

Victor
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Old 13-03-2012, 04:40   #7
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Re: Rules for US Boat Sailing in Europe - Not Found

Hi Victor,

For a US built boat, in addition to the VAT you will also have to conform to the 95 EU Directive for Recreational craft also known as the “CE” stamp. This can be quite onerous depending on the conformity of the vessel. Safety and stability tests may be required and even repowering if the diesel does not meet current EU standards (i.e. perkins engines). The CE stamp will be mandatory to register the boat on any EU country. Additionally individual countries such as Spain may require mandatory equipment from an approved official list (requiring you replace radios, radar, etc).
You may be able to defer this under a US registration, but will have to conform if you ever want sell the boat in the EU.


Cheers,
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Old 13-03-2012, 05:55   #8
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Re: Rules for US Boat Sailing in Europe - Not Found

Hi Capitain Sardine, this is certainly not correct for the UK. I registered a Tayana in the UK (Small Ships Register) without a CE certificate. The only requirement was to provide a UK address for them to mail the hard copy registration certificate to. To the best of my knowledge, only manufacturers wishing to sell a boat in the UK need to have CE certification
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Old 13-03-2012, 11:03   #9
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Re: Rules for US Boat Sailing in Europe - Not Found

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Originally Posted by FairweatherTony View Post
Hi Capitain Sardine, this is certainly not correct for the UK. I registered a Tayana in the UK (Small Ships Register) without a CE certificate. The only requirement was to provide a UK address for them to mail the hard copy registration certificate to. To the best of my knowledge, only manufacturers wishing to sell a boat in the UK need to have CE certification
Hi,

from :
Safety and environment: EU harmonised requirements for recreational craft - Maritime industries - Enterprise and Industry

"This Directive, which combines the promotion of competitiveness with the protection of the environment and the citizen, was gradually introduced and has been fully in force since 31 December 2006."

But I read somewhere else that it was delayed to 1998, to check.

The seller has to deliver a CE conformity certificate to the buyer to register the boat. Boats built before which my case escape this procedure.

My 2 cents, and thanks for the warning.
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Old 13-03-2012, 19:42   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by victorchoc

Hi,

from :
Safety and environment: EU harmonised requirements for recreational craft - Maritime industries - Enterprise and Industry

"This Directive, which combines the promotion of competitiveness with the protection of the environment and the citizen, was gradually introduced and has been fully in force since 31 December 2006."

But I read somewhere else that it was delayed to 1998, to check.

The seller has to deliver a CE conformity certificate to the buyer to register the boat. Boats built before which my case escape this procedure.

My 2 cents, and thanks for the warning.
Which is not the same as saying that the registries require it. Some do and some don't..

Dave
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