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Old 28-11-2017, 09:27   #16
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Re: rules for c&d canal?

OP seems to assume that riding the tide will give him steerage way. Not so, his control will depend on how much speed he gains by rowing. Anyway you cut it, his ability to get out of the way of large vessels will be extremely limited. His plan is an accident waiting to happen assuming he gets permission to enter which is unlikely.
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Old 28-11-2017, 11:08   #17
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Re: rules for c&d canal?

Sean/Boat Alexandria,

Will agree sailing through the C&D can be a bit hairy, but can be done. How do I know, because many, many years ago in a boat very similar to yours, we had to do it after our exhaust system failed just after entering the canal, disabling our atomic 4.

Maybe with dumb luck, we made it through the 14 mile canal in good time while tacking through the narrow canal. Shipping traffic wasn't too heavy that day and there were never any close encounters or obstructed any of the other ships transiting the canal.

There generally is a good current in the canal which you can use to your advantage if you can maintain speed/rudder control. They do have several small docks thru the canal that you could tie up to short term (current change, rest, etc.). Don't know the depths at these docks and the canal is lined with boulders.

Maybe I'm older/wiser now, but don't think sailing thru the canal would be my first choice, but it can be done. Search the CF forum to get tip on transiting the Delaware Bay so you hit the favorable current going thru the canal.

Good luck,
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Old 28-11-2017, 11:27   #18
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Re: rules for c&d canal?

Doing it is possible but different from above in that it could be endangering self and commercial traffic for a routine planned trip rather than breakdown. And different than sailing into remote passes and anchorages which only involve danger to self. As for your attack I’ve sailed in and out of lots of tight spaces as an experience dinghy and keelboat racer and lifelong cruiser. But as a hard core cruiser save yourself the misery of Delaware bay and go around cape Charles. Then come up bay that way!
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Old 28-11-2017, 16:56   #19
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Re: rules for c&d canal?

Thanks for all the replies. It looks like it is permitted, so this is very good news. It seems like half the responses think it is a bad idea but I am not really sure why (except that it's boring to sail there)

To give some background, on why I made the previous comments, consider my experience in the cape cod canal:

According to their rules you need auxillary power (which I have in the form of very efficient oars) I can travel at 1.5 knots for hours + current if needed. I am also much more maneuverable than an inboard, I have the ability to turn as fast as an outboard that can rotate because I can do turning strokes. I waited 3 days until the wind was blowing 15 knots straight down the canal. I had a strong favorable current also as I entered 1 hours after the current switched.

I was making 7 knots over ground, and would be through the canal in about an hour. The canal patrol pulled up to me and told me to use an engine. I explained that my auxillary power was not an engine, but oars. I was all the way on the right side of the canal, and in complete control and ability to maneuver. There was no reason I would not make it through without any problem to anyone.

Instead they freaked out, and got really upset, that I didn't want to cause pollution like the superyacht next to me that was bellowing black smoke. I said I was following the rules since it says "auxillary power" and mentions nothing about what form of power or how powerful etc. I also explained I had an electric outboard I could use if required. I also stated that I could understand if they didn't want me tacking across the canal, but I was running wing and wing and maintaining a straight course right on the side of the canal so I would not cause problems.

They got really mad and said that I didn't know what the definition of auxillary power was. They then explained it had to be "internal combustion" and electric isn't powerful enough. I protested to this, and the reply was "we have the authority to stop any vessel for any reason" which to me is basically admitting to abusing power. Then they stated: "YOU ARE DENIED, YOU WILL NOT TRANSIT THE CANAL, YOU WILL TURN BACK NOW etc etc" I explained I couldn't go against the 4 knot current, so they told me to take a mooring on the side, and wait for tide to change which I did. 6 hours later I had to tack 20 times to go back out of the canal and sail an extra 30 hours for no reason.

It turned out ok, because I caught a lot of fish around cape cod and made lots of jerky, but wow, I must be lucky that I am not one of these guys, what a miserable job.


Now apparently, the C&D canal is different. It sounds like as long as I can stay all the way on the side the whole time, and am alert and able to maneuver (1.5 knots over water speed even if the wind dies) then it would be impossible to actually have any problems.

I would not choose to go through against the wind, but if I somehow needed to, consider that if any ship comes along and gives me less space than the 30 meters I need to tack, and the wind is more than 20 knots so I cannot row against it, I can just turn around and run with the wind while the ship passes and maintain complete control and maneuverability.

For this reason, I think sailing and using oars should always be permitted and encouraged in canals, because it can never actually cause a problem.

As for the 4ft waves that the ships leave behind them.. I somehow doubt this, but I'm really not at all concerned by it even if they did make such waves. Keep in mind, I am more maneuverable (less vulernerable to currents spinning me) than a boat with an inboard. I can actually turn in place.

Anyone who were to transit relying on the engine, is much more likely to cause a problem than I would, so logically this should be discouraged. engines are not very reliable compared to oars. A lot of times something gets sucked into the impeller or so I have heard plenty of stories about random engine problems.
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Old 28-11-2017, 17:36   #20
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Re: rules for c&d canal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by boat_alexandra View Post



For this reason, I think sailing and using oars should always be permitted and encouraged in canals, because it can never actually cause a problem.

.


And here we have it.....the downfall of all of the rest of the logical argument.
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Old 28-11-2017, 19:40   #21
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Re: rules for c&d canal?

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Originally Posted by boat driver View Post
think a bit of excitement will be had by someone-
to be sure I was not misunderstood- 2 foot waves- but 4 knot current around ships-
well, hope the best for him- god does take care of idiots....
He is 9/10th of the way around the world in this boat with no engine, but all you keyboard cruisers sure know best
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Old 28-11-2017, 20:06   #22
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Re: rules for c&d canal?

Well good luck since it sounds like you are convinced you can do it. Just remember this nothing like cape cod canal in terms of breeze. I’ve transited the C&D canal 8 times and can’t remember more than some random zephyrs from time to time. So I think you’ll be rowing quite a bit. A couple of tips-you will be going up DE bay and the current is quite strong and can sweep you by the canal quickly if you’re not careful. And if you decide to stop in chesapeake city basin to rest, make sure you hug the port side of entrance on the way in. To Stbd is very shallow
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Old 28-11-2017, 20:52   #23
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Re: rules for c&d canal?

More to the point, the canal is generally patrolled and is surveiled by cameras at several points for safety reasons. I think he is going to get stopped.
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Old 28-11-2017, 21:00   #24
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Re: rules for c&d canal?

Quote:
...so they told me to take a mooring on the side, and wait for tide to change which I did. 6 hours later I had to tack 20 times to go back out of the canal and sail an extra 30 hours for no reason.

It turned out ok, because I caught a lot of fish around cape cod and made lots of jerky, but wow, I must be lucky that I am not one of these guys, what a miserable job.


Now apparently, the C&D canal is different. It sounds like as long as I can stay all the way on the side the whole time, and am alert and able to maneuver (1.5 knots over water speed even if the wind dies) then it would be impossible to actually have any problems.
Whee, ya get to do it all over again.

Good luck.

Looking forward to your post-canal story.
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Old 29-11-2017, 00:08   #25
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Re: rules for c&d canal?

The basic argument comes down to...I've done stupid things and survived so I can always do stupid things and survive.

If he's such a great sailor and has been half way around the world, why not run on the outside where he won't make life miserable for others?
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Old 29-11-2017, 03:09   #26
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Re: rules for c&d canal?

“In the event of question as to the ability of any vessel to navigate the waterway safely, a ruling will be made by the dispatcher. The owner, agent, master, pilot, or other person in charge of the vessel concerned may appeal the dispatcher's ruling to the District Engineer whose decision shall be final.”
Per the CFR


I’d sure like to know what the dispatcher was going to say before i spent days rowing/sailing up the Delaware bay.... (and I don’t think there is a dispatcher controlling the East River.)

And I’m not sure the beg forgiveness route would succeed in the face of gross tonnage.

But ymmv
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Old 29-11-2017, 03:54   #27
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Re: rules for c&d canal?

From U.S. Coast Pilot, Vol. 3, Chap. 7 (C&D Canal), page 211:

(f) Sailboats. Transiting the canal by vessels under
sail is not permitted between Reedy Point and Welch
Point.

I don't find a similar rule for rowboats.

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Old 29-11-2017, 05:55   #28
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Re: rules for c&d canal?

To get to Annapolis the outside route is only 130 miles more. A simple day on passage prob well worth missing the currents, chop and nasty shoals of DE Bay. Not to mention rowing a multi-ton boat down the canal...
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Old 29-11-2017, 06:47   #29
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Re: rules for c&d canal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ranger42c View Post
From U.S. Coast Pilot, Vol. 3, Chap. 7 (C&D Canal), page 211:

(f) Sailboats. Transiting the canal by vessels under
sail is not permitted between Reedy Point and Welch
Point.

I don't find a similar rule for rowboats.

-Chris
And that's because the authorities never considered that anyone would be foolish enough to try and row a boat through the canal.

The issue here is not so much that he's endangering himself, he is endangering shipping. A commercial ship could ground or worse trying to avoid him.
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Old 29-11-2017, 07:03   #30
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Re: rules for c&d canal?

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Originally Posted by pressuredrop View Post
He is 9/10th of the way around the world in this boat with no engine, but all you keyboard cruisers sure know best
That's an entirely unfair characterization. People are giving him advice based on direct experience with the canal. And those who have actually sailed through say while it can be done they would not advise it. If everything goes according to plan it would be fine, but if something goes wrong it could be life threatening.

He should sail around and up the Bay. Would spare him the slog up the Delaware, which in truth might be more challenging than the canal itself, and all the potential stress and dangers listed. If he's gone 9/10 of the way around the world another 150 miles should not be an issue.

As an aside, everywhere this guy goes he says it's "the worst place he's ever been." Every person of authority is judged to be some corrupt misguided uninformed idiot. Well sometimes the lady doth protest too much and I think his judgement is questioned because he has a long history of poor judgement, or at least posting about it.
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