Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 21-04-2012, 20:55   #1
Registered User
 
pillum's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: In Aberdeen, Scotland, but retiring to Spain.
Boat: Westerly W-35 (Latterly sold as Conway 36 Aft Cockpit)
Posts: 509
Images: 28
Registration in two countries?

Anyone know if it is ok to register a sailboat in two countries at the same time. For example state registration in Florida and SSR in the uk?
__________________

__________________
Sweet are the uses of adversity.
pillum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-04-2012, 22:37   #2
Senior Cruiser
 
maxingout's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Fort Pierce, Phoenix
Boat: Privilege 39 Catamaran, Exit Only
Posts: 2,606
Re: Registration in two countries?

In all of my years of sailing, I have never seen a boat with registration in two different countries at the same time. There are plenty of people sailing on yachts that are a different nationality for where the boat is registered or documented. But two documentations sounds like it wouldn't work out. Especially when you sail to another country. That would really cause confusion among officialdom.
__________________

__________________
Dave -Sailing Vessel Exit Only

http://SailingUNI.com
http://maxingout.com
http://PositiveThinkingSailor.com
maxingout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-04-2012, 22:41   #3
Registered User
 
Astrid's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Northern British Columbia, part of the time in Prince Rupert and part of the time on Moresby Island.
Boat: 50-ft steel Ketch
Posts: 1,885
Send a message via MSN to Astrid Send a message via Yahoo to Astrid
Re: Registration in two countries?

I don't even think you can register a boat in Canada if it is already registered in another country without first going through a de-registration procedure first, and only if you qualify personally to register the boat in the first place.
__________________
'Tis evening on the moorland free,The starlit wave is still: Home is the sailor from the sea, The hunter from the hill.
Astrid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-04-2012, 22:59   #4
Registered User
 
Astrid's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Northern British Columbia, part of the time in Prince Rupert and part of the time on Moresby Island.
Boat: 50-ft steel Ketch
Posts: 1,885
Send a message via MSN to Astrid Send a message via Yahoo to Astrid
Re: Registration in two countries?

Just looked it up:

According to Transport Canada,

Quote:
Further, if at the time of application, the vessel was registered in a foreign country, before Canadian registration could be effected, the owner shall provide evidence in the form of an original or true copy of a written document, such as a Deletion Certificate or an Abstract or Transcript of Registry. This provides proof that the foreign registry is closed and is free and clear of all encumbrances. The Registrar at the vessel's foreign port of registry issues these documents.
__________________
'Tis evening on the moorland free,The starlit wave is still: Home is the sailor from the sea, The hunter from the hill.
Astrid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-04-2012, 23:20   #5
Registered User
 
markpierce's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Central California
Boat: M/V Carquinez Coot
Posts: 3,413
Re: Registration in two countries?

why would one want to register in two different jurisdictions? sounds extra-costly and illegal (although some sovereign states in the US require state registration even if one already has U.S. government registration/documentation.)
__________________
markpierce is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2012, 04:02   #6
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,649
Images: 3
Re: Registration in two countries?

The SSR in the uK is a unusual register, in that its not really a proper international register, ( Thats Part 1). It was created to get around the fact that the UK doesn't need leisure yachts to be registered, but Europe did and so the UK created this simple system to provide the paperwork.

National registers like Part 1 in the UK, will require evidence that the previous register entry was extinguished , ( by way of a deflaging cert.) before they will allow a vessel to be registered. The IMO convention that setup such vessel registration is clear about that , you cannot be on two national registrations at once. Of course common sense would tell you that anyway, since what home countries rules would you apply.

Dave
__________________
Check out my new blog on smart boat technology, networking and gadgets for the connected sailor! - http://smartboats.tumblr.com
goboatingnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2012, 04:46   #7
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
Re: Registration in two countries?

My take is that as State Registration is not a "proper" internationally recognised ship registration (even though in some countries it no doubt is accepted as OK to visit with) then it doesn't matter, and therefore doesn't count. (same way as over here in Jersey boats are meant to be registered with the local harbour office (really as a counting excercise - for what reason I know not!), but that alone don't get you into other countries - my boat could therefore be termed as "Jersey Registered" and also (quite legally and properly) on the national Ship Register of the UK (SSR or Part 1), the US or Mongolia! (as long as I / the boat met the requirements for those registers).

SSR being a national register and also internationally recognised (even though, as GBN said, really only a bureaucratic fudge) would (IMO = don't blame me if I am wrong!) not conflict with a State Registration. Hell, come over here and you could also be Jersey Registered!
David_Old_Jersey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2012, 04:55   #8
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,649
Images: 3
Re: Registration in two countries?

Quote:
SSR being a national register and also internationally recognise
under the principles of comity, yes. But I do not believe the SSR qualifies under the IMO treaty. It merely confirms the "nationality" of the vessel. A full ships register confers "proof of title" which the SSR does not.
__________________
Check out my new blog on smart boat technology, networking and gadgets for the connected sailor! - http://smartboats.tumblr.com
goboatingnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2012, 05:18   #9
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
Re: Registration in two countries?

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
under the principles of comity, yes. But I do not believe the SSR qualifies under the IMO treaty. It merely confirms the "nationality" of the vessel. A full ships register confers "proof of title" which the SSR does not.
Fair points.........but the SSR is accepted (in practice) internationally as a "proper" yacht registration (and a squillion?! yachts have travelled the world with it - send the guinea pigs on ahead ).
David_Old_Jersey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2012, 07:49   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SW Florida
Boat: FP Belize, 43' - Dot Dun
Posts: 3,423
Re: Registration in two countries?

Be careful with terminology. The term 'register' and 'document' have different meanings depending on where you are.

My vessel is USCG documented AND Florida 'registered'. Of course, the Florida 'registration' is simply a mechanism for the state to extract money from my wallet and has nothing to do with ownership nor documentation of the vessel. So a vessel documented 'anywhere' (foreign or domestic), that is transiting Florida state jurisdictional waters for more than 90 days and does not have a US CBP cruising license (AFAIK, the only exemption) MUST (according to Florida state law) 'register' the vessel in Florida and pay the appropriate 'fee'.

The Florida 'registration fee' for my vessel is $135/year. The amount varies by where the registration is purchased, state law allows counties to add surcharges on top of the state fee, mine is purchased in a county that does not participate in that additional rip-off. The registration is valid state-wide when purchased from any Florida county.
__________________
DotDun is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2012, 08:11   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Abaco, Bahamas/ Western NC
Boat: Nothing large at the moment
Posts: 819
Re: Registration in two countries?

Our Trawler is US documented, Fla registered, and Bahamian regestered. No Problem.
__________________
Tingum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2012, 08:16   #12
Registered User
 
jeremiason's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Punta Gorda, Florida
Boat: Sea Ray 270
Posts: 1,427
Images: 2
Send a message via ICQ to jeremiason Send a message via Yahoo to jeremiason Send a message via Skype™ to jeremiason
Re: Registration in two countries?

It is an interesting question your are asking since, the UK registration requires citizenship, but Florida State Regitration does not. My assumption is you are a UK Citizen, with you and/or the boat in Florida.

Although, unlikely, in this day and age of infomation sharing, having two registrations could expose you to tax in both the respective jurisdictions, not to mention that you could be exposed to unnecessary scutiny by Port Officials, wondering why a vessel has two flags.

So my questions is why would you consider such a thing?
__________________
Tom Jeremiason
Punta Gorda, Florida

jeremiason is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2012, 08:26   #13
Registered User
 
jeremiason's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Punta Gorda, Florida
Boat: Sea Ray 270
Posts: 1,427
Images: 2
Send a message via ICQ to jeremiason Send a message via Yahoo to jeremiason Send a message via Skype™ to jeremiason
Re: Registration in two countries?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tingum View Post
Our Trawler is US documented, Fla registered, and Bahamian regestered. No Problem.
Interesting since under Title USC TItle 46 you are required to reliquish foreign title before obtaining US Documentation and could be in violation of US Code for holding The Bahamian Registration:

67.55 Requirement for removal from foreign registry.

The owner of a vessel must present evidence of removal of the vessel from foreign registry whenever:
(a) The owner applies for initial documentation of a vessel that has at any time been registered under the laws of a foreign country; or
(b) The owner applies for reentry into documentation of a vessel that had been registered under the laws of a foreign country since it was last documented under the laws of the United States.

Here is a link to Title 46, with everything you every want to know about Documenting a Vessel in the US.

Electronic Code of Federal Regulations:

__________________
Tom Jeremiason
Punta Gorda, Florida

jeremiason is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2012, 08:30   #14
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Abaco, Bahamas/ Western NC
Boat: Nothing large at the moment
Posts: 819
Re: Registration in two countries?

Duty paid in the Bahamas, no need for a crusing permit or time restrictions on staying.
__________________
Tingum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2012, 08:43   #15
Registered User
 
jeremiason's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Punta Gorda, Florida
Boat: Sea Ray 270
Posts: 1,427
Images: 2
Send a message via ICQ to jeremiason Send a message via Yahoo to jeremiason Send a message via Skype™ to jeremiason
Re: Registration in two countries?

I understand your reasoning to avoid fees... But how do you get around carring two flags?
__________________

__________________
Tom Jeremiason
Punta Gorda, Florida

jeremiason is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
registration

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 20:59.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.