Registering a Vessel as British in the US

[Steven UK]

I am truly humbled by the effort you all put into this... actually Montanan the subsection thing got me as well.

I’m dyslexic (actually really am) at the best of times, I’m a fully functioning engineer but have to re-read things a lot.

Thanks again

[Steven UK]

does anyone have experience with Part 1 Ships Register in the UK. is there an alternative to having a survey (a UK registered tonnage surveyor is not easy to find in the US) in Canada there is a simplified tonnage process for smaller boats and there is one in the UK for fishing boats. does anyone know if the simplified method can be used in the UK successfully..?

https://assets.publishing.service.go...3_Rev_1017.pdf

this would make my life much easier...

Regards Steven

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by Steven UK

does anyone have experience with Part 1 Ships Register in the UK. is there an alternative to having a survey (a UK registered tonnage surveyor is not easy to find in the US) in Canada there is a simplified tonnage process for smaller boats and there is one in the UK for fishing boats. does anyone know if the simplified method can be used in the UK successfully..?

https://assets.publishing.service.go...3_Rev_1017.pdf

this would make my life much easier...

Regards Steven

Don't know if they will accept a simplified form in the UK but they do accept my Canadian Appointment. There are a couple of US guys with Canadian appointments they may accept ..... ask them. US Tonnage Surveyors with Canadian Appointments.

[Steven UK]

Boatpoker many thanks I’ll give them a call later today as well as the guys in the UK (again).

[conachair]

You might be a bit closer to the horses mouth asking on a UK forum >
Yachting Monthly's Scuttlebutt

Fairly sure you need an official guy with the tape measure to calculate tonnage, to do with carrying capacity not weight of the boat apparently.

Tonnage Survey for Part 1

[Island Time O25]

Was helping a non US cit friend on Key West to Panama Canal leg. Boat was state registered in FL. He continued to CA. No issues with state registration in any jurisdictions in between, other than the usual "after office hours" extra fees, etc.

When state titling one of my boats in MA, boat previously reg'd in ME, they had to pull out a LE, allegedely not for public eyes, book which gave detailed descriptions of states' and worldwide registrations schemes, title samples, reg. papers, etc. All this because Maine is a non title state.

Was told that this was a post 9/11 thing and supposedly all maritime and auto authorities worldwide supposed to have an updated copy on hand for the very reason they used it for my reg. process.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

Was helping a non US cit friend on Key West to Panama Canal leg. Boat was state registered in FL. He continued to CA. No issues with state registration in any jurisdictions in between, other than the usual "after office hours" extra fees, etc.

When state titling one of my boats in MA, boat previously reg'd in ME, they had to pull out a LE, allegedely not for public eyes, book which gave detailed descriptions of states' and worldwide registrations schemes, title samples, reg. papers, etc. All this because Maine is a non title state.

Was told that this was a post 9/11 thing and supposedly all maritime and auto authorities worldwide supposed to have an updated copy on hand for the very reason they used it for my reg. process.

All of that for millions of of documented and registered vessel worldwide is available online and has been since the beginning of the internet. Here is the Canadian one.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

Was helping a non US cit friend on Key West to Panama Canal leg. Boat was state registered in FL. He continued to CA. No issues with state registration in any jurisdictions in between, other than the usual "after office hours" extra fees, etc.

When state titling one of my boats in MA, boat previously reg'd in ME, they had to pull out a LE, allegedely not for public eyes, book which gave detailed descriptions of states' and worldwide registrations schemes, title samples, reg. papers, etc. All this because Maine is a non title state.

Was told that this was a post 9/11 thing and supposedly all maritime and auto authorities worldwide supposed to have an updated copy on hand for the very reason they used it for my reg. process.

All of that for millions of of documented and registered vessel worldwide is available online and has been since the beginning of the internet. Here is the Canadian site.

[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

All of that for millions of of documented and registered vessel worldwide is available online and has been since the beginning of the internet. Here is the Canadian one.

May be. But supposedly that LE book describes hidden features to look for to weed out fake titles, reg papers, etc. They wouldn't bring it to the counter for me to see up close but were flipping pages and I could see from few feet away country flags and color copies of reg papers.

[Steven UK]

OK so latest development the Canadian Built Boat fell through and i am now very close to buying a Westerly in Miami Florida. it is again a USCG registered vessel. from my current understanding: -
1. boat has to be de-registered with the USCG this is done by writing directly to the NVDC.
2. i believe then the boat gets a title as per a car and would need to be state titled... i have no idea what happens to the title.
3. i have to obtain a UK registration via SSR or Part 1.
4. i have to get a cruising permit that will have to renew every year (green card).

does this sound right?

what happens to the title when the boat is de-registered with the NVDC?

this is giving me a headache... i just want to go sailing...

[boatpoker]

You will find this easier to navigate if you use the correct terminology.

The boat is not USCG "Registered". .... it is USCG "Documented".

"Registration" in the US is a State function.

[Steven UK]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

You will find this easier to navigate if you use the correct terminology.

The boat is not USCG "Registered". .... it is USCG "Documented".

"Registration" in the US is a State function.

oops... there's too many words... i'm starting to loose it.

[svlamorocha]

Originally Posted by Steven UK

OK so latest development the Canadian Built Boat fell through and i am now very close to buying a Westerly in Miami Florida. it is again a USCG registered vessel. from my current understanding: -
1. boat has to be de-registered with the USCG this is done by writing directly to the NVDC.
2. i believe then the boat gets a title as per a car and would need to be state titled... i have no idea what happens to the title.
3. i have to obtain a UK registration via SSR or Part 1.
4. i have to get a cruising permit that will have to renew every year (green card).

does this sound right?

what happens to the title when the boat is de-registered with the NVDC?
.

One option is to "dedocument" with USCG, for which you will need a signature from previous owner, then show proof of "dedocumentation" and bill of sale to UK Registry (for Part I). Advantage: no US state tax, provided you get you cruising license before state tax on sale kicks in. Disadvantages: If you stay in US waters a lot you will have to follow certain Customs procedures (that depend on location) when moving the boat from place to place. You may conclude that in order to be safe from state sales tax you need to close the sale in international waters or in waters (or land!) of another country. Detail will depend on state and your degree of risk aversion.

Another option for an "alien" in the US is to just go the local DMV with the bill of sale and paper proving "dedocumentation" and get the boat registered with the state. Advantages: In practice you will be exempt from the red tape that applied to foreign boats when moving along US coast. You will get your papers on the spot if you go in person. Disadvantages: You may be subject to state sales tax. If you are very risk averse or have bad luck then you may find that a boat owned by an "alien"but is not flagged elsewhere still is a foreign vessel subject to foreign vessel red tape.

[jmschmidt]

Steven UK, again there is no such thing as a "USCG registered vessel". In the US the term "registered" only applies to boats which have state registration numbers on their bows. Keeping the two separated in your mind and understanding the benefits, or lack thereof, of each is very important.

A foreign built vessel can be "documented" (as a pleasure craft only) with the USCG. I own one. This allows a wide range of financing options over state only "registration". Also, many foreign countries require USCG "documentation" and will not allow a vessel to clear in with a state only "registration". This is a simple fact of international treaties. USCG "documentation", by treaty, is recognized by all but a handful of nations on earth. While many will let clear you in, none are required by international treaty to recognize state only "registration". I know the terminology deferrers from country to country but all nations have a highest level of vessel recognition and this is the level stated in the treaty.

Also, USCG "documentation" costs only $25 a year (was free up until a few years ago) whereas state fees and taxes can be significantly more.

State only "registration" may expose you to unnecessary local taxes if you frequently move from location to location and believe me, aggressive state tax officials tax first (meaning they send you a summons) and ask questions later. Then I will be up to you to dig yourself out a tax hole.

You can document with the USCG and use any address and hailing port in the county. Pick one that doesn't taxes on boats and keep it moving and you could save tons of money.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by Steven UK

OK so latest development the Canadian Built Boat fell through and i am now very close to buying a Westerly in Miami Florida. it is again a USCG registered vessel. from my current understanding: -
1. boat has to be de-registered with the USCG this is done by writing directly to the NVDC.
2. i believe then the boat gets a title as per a car and would need to be state titled... i have no idea what happens to the title.
3. i have to obtain a UK registration via SSR or Part 1.
4. i have to get a cruising permit that will have to renew every year (green card).

does this sound right?

what happens to the title when the boat is de-registered with the NVDC?

this is giving me a headache... i just want to go sailing...

Steven, in the USA, one either obtains USCG documentation of vessel or has the boat titled with the appropriate state agency. Documentation is in essence a Federal titling. One is allowed to only title a vessel once, either at the state level or at the federal level, not both. In your instance, by choosing to foreign flag the vessel via the Small Ship Registry of the UK, your vessel will be titled by the UK via the SSR. You should not title the vessel elsewhere. Titling is for the purpose of establishing ownership and is typically evidence based on presentation of a bill of sale. USCG documentation and the UK SSR are also means for recordation of liens on the vessels by financing institutions. Indeed you will need to maintain the cruising permit in the USA with your foreign flag SSR vessel which automatic reoccurring permit is uniquely allowed due to your permanent resident [greencard] status.

If you where not a permanent resident and only a US citizen and thus unable to utilize the SSR in the UK, you would need to register your vessel with the state in which waters it resides for an extended period of time, usually 90 days, even if the boat had USCG documentation. The difference as to state registration of a USCG documented boat is that one does not place the state's registration numbers on the bow of the vessel and the boat is not issued a certificate of title by the state, whereas an undocumented vessel is required to display its state registration numbers on its bow and the state in which the vessel is registered will require that state's titling of the vessel. State registration provides a means for the state & county to charge fees and taxes on the vessel since if it resides in state waters for the proscribed period of time.

The terms, registration, titling, documentation, each have distinct meanings. Become knowledgeable of what each is and be precise when using such terms. All too often the terms are misunderstood and misused, [like 99% of the time]. Over the course of many years, the posting of this forum has been there done that probably thousands of times .

50 states, 50 sets of state rules. And then there are the national rules, be they for example, UK or US Federal regulations.