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Old 26-02-2016, 07:23   #1
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Refusing Arrival Fees

I would like to know about any possible complications if you were to arrive in a new country, be presented with fees which turn out to be too high for you to afford so instead you offer to get back on your boat and leave immediately instead.

As far as I can tell this practice is perfectly legal but I have heard reports that some governments claim you already owe money before you are cleared in.

Furthermore, isn't it true that any vessel can claim the right to stay 72 hours to make emergency repairs? Which countries allow for this? Doesn't this conflict with advance notice of arrival or areas which require permits to access?

Various laws may conflict here, and in the end money will encourage officials will perform illegal acts, for example breaking international treaties that they don't even know about. Which countries should be specifically avoided for this reason, and which countries are known to be tolerant of this?

Is there a list of countries which are possible to visit legally if there exists no money on the boat? I am interested to know even in cases where it's possible to stay only 24 hours.
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Old 26-02-2016, 07:36   #2
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Re: refusing arrival fees

and then people wonder why no one (especially locals) like to see "cruisers" to come close to their ports and harbours.
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Old 26-02-2016, 07:38   #3
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Re: refusing arrival fees

No fees due on entry into Chile... you may have to pay 'light dues' on departure.
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Old 26-02-2016, 08:01   #4
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Re: refusing arrival fees

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Furthermore, isn't it true that any vessel can claim the right to stay 72 hours to make emergency repairs
..... No.
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Old 26-02-2016, 08:02   #5
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Re: refusing arrival fees

If I were to go to the time, effort and expense to cruise to a certain country, I wouldn't turn around and leave because the fees were "too high". I would hope that I would have checked on any fees before setting out to visit that country.


Even if I forgot to do that, I would just pay the fees and not turn around and go back to where I came from.
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Old 26-02-2016, 08:05   #6
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Re: refusing arrival fees

I found this to be a good question. Interacting with various .gov agencies is one of the points of stress in my plans. I can see many reasons for getting into this situation (bad/old information, unexpected routing issues - ie having to find a port in a storm/repairs). My personal belief is that we will see a rise in the costs in clearing routines which will affect some (mine for sure) budgets. I await answers from people that have experience.
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Old 26-02-2016, 08:08   #7
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pirate Re: refusing arrival fees

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Originally Posted by boat_alexandra View Post
I would like to know about any possible complications if you were to arrive in a new country, be presented with fees which turn out to be too high for you to afford so instead you offer to get back on your boat and leave immediately instead.

As far as I can tell this practice is perfectly legal but I have heard reports that some governments claim you already owe money before you are cleared in.

Furthermore, isn't it true that any vessel can claim the right to stay 72 hours to make emergency repairs? Which countries allow for this? Doesn't this conflict with advance notice of arrival or areas which require permits to access?

Various laws may conflict here, and in the end money will encourage officials will perform illegal acts, for example breaking international treaties that they don't even know about. Which countries should be specifically avoided for this reason, and which countries are known to be tolerant of this?

Is there a list of countries which are possible to visit legally if there exists no money on the boat? I am interested to know even in cases where it's possible to stay only 24 hours.
Each country varies.. some charge.. others do not.. some will seize your boat others just jail you..
You have a laptop I presume.. check the entry requirements ahead of your planned route.
Aint no such thing as a free meal.. everything costs one way or tuther..
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Old 26-02-2016, 08:16   #8
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Re: refusing arrival fees

I used to ferry aircraft quite a bit down into South America.
My experience at least with aircraft is if you don't pay the fees, even inflated ones that aren't official, they impound the aircraft, and possibly incarcerate you.
I was always real nice, sometimes played stupid, and paid as little as I could get away with and was never locked up, but from other guys experiences, if you escalated things, it usually didn't go well.

I'd try playing stupid, be VERY nice and apologetic and offer to leave right away, never, ever, denigrate them, maybe even tipping the official if that seemed to be where it was going, but obviously if your impoverished yourself you can't tip much.
But being friendly, treating them as if they were some kind of high official, and downplaying your own importance seems to go a long way.

The flipside of that is often wearing the silly white collared shirt with Captains bars on the epilet also seemed to make things a lot easier too, made you look official too I guess.
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Old 26-02-2016, 08:17   #9
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Re: refusing arrival fees

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Originally Posted by rwidman View Post
If I were to go to the time, effort and expense to cruise to a certain country, I wouldn't turn around and leave because the fees were "too high". I would hope that I would have checked on any fees before setting out to visit that country.
I am of course researching the fees in advance, but they change frequently, and for example I cannot find any information on what they are in St Barts.

What if the fees are more than all of your money?

It seems in this case reasonable to politely refuse and continue on, but I would like to verify where this is perfectly acceptable.
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Old 26-02-2016, 08:19   #10
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Re: refusing arrival fees

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Aint no such thing as a free meal.. everything costs one way or tuther..
Most of my meals are free and a lot of things don't cost anything, so basically I disagree with you.
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Old 26-02-2016, 08:31   #11
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Re: refusing arrival fees

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
I used to ferry aircraft quite a bit down into South America.
My experience at least with aircraft is if you don't pay the fees, even inflated ones that aren't official, they impound the aircraft, and possibly incarcerate you.
I was always real nice, sometimes played stupid, and paid as little as I could get away with and was never locked up, but from other guys experiences, if you escalated things, it usually didn't go well.

I'd try playing stupid, be VERY nice and apologetic and offer to leave right away, never, ever, denigrate them, maybe even tipping the official if that seemed to be where it was going, but obviously if your impoverished yourself you can't tip much.
But being friendly, treating them as if they were some kind of high official, and downplaying your own importance seems to go a long way.

The flipside of that is often wearing the silly white collared shirt with Captains bars on the epilet also seemed to make things a lot easier too, made you look official too I guess.
X1000!!!

Play dumb (uninformed), be respectful and friendly often can get away of lots of things.
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Old 26-02-2016, 08:32   #12
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Re: refusing arrival fees

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and then people wonder why no one (especially locals) like to see "cruisers" to come close to their ports and harbours.
Unfortunately that usually backfires against the real locals, rather than Government Officials (who also end up losing out).

As a real life example, a small local town used to have a parking area down by the river, that was used by about 30 lorries to overnight at.

Almost all of these lorry drivers spent their overnight money in the town - in 2012 that was £33.85 per night.

If we call it a 50 week year to cover Christmas and a couple of Bank Holidays, the average spend (with some drivers spending more, and some less) per year, what local businesses lost, when the Council got rid of the parking area, was an annual turnover of £355,425, or about US $500,000.

Money that circulated around, and helped the economy of the whole area. Similar policies have now resulted in pretty much the bulk closure of businesses, in what was once a thriving little Market Town.

Fees have exactly the same negative effect.

The same can be said of heavily enforced parking penalties. Parking enforcement became so bad in my local village, for the fines revenue, even doctors on call were getting parking tickets! It became so bad, and businesses in the village were suffering so badly, as customers daren't even come into the village to shop as no matter what they did, they could guarantee getting a ticket, that the local shopkeepers pretty much had to boycott the Council, until things were changed.

It never makes sense to kill the geese that lay the golden eggs, or even to drive them away.

In my own case, I dearly wish to visit the Bahamas (because a good friend and neighbour lived there for quite a while as the head of Bahamas Security, and I would like to lay a wreath at the War Memorial there in his memory), but I will not be visiting this time. Instead, when I get back at the end of the year, I will visit then, because I will get value from the fixed 3 month fee. The most I could warrant staying this time, is a week, and I am not paying $300 for a week or less right now (I want to get the boat right first, and budget is limited). So they have missed out on a week's worth of fees, and my purchase of other things while there.

Still, I might be able to be there for Remembrance Day in November, and I think old Jack would perhaps like that better.
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Old 26-02-2016, 08:39   #13
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Most of my meals are free and a lot of things don't cost anything, so basically I disagree with you.
Ahhh..!!
Memories of the '60's and the Grand Trunk Road from Afghanistan through Pakistan to India and the Hippies Peace and Love who bummed their way across the sub-continent living of seriously poor folk who shared what little they had with these bums who had a life off comparative luxury to return to when they got bored.. and an Embassy to go to for a ticket home.. a lot of 'Stuff' did not cost them anything either.. like you it seems they were not bothered by what it cost others..
Clear in at SMX (30euro in 2012) or any other French island.. your then covered for the FWI
Glory Days...
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Old 26-02-2016, 08:41   #14
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Re: refusing arrival fees

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Originally Posted by boat_alexandra View Post
I would like to know about any possible complications if you were to arrive in a new country, be presented with fees which turn out to be too high for you to afford so instead you offer to get back on your boat and leave immediately instead.

As far as I can tell this practice is perfectly legal but I have heard reports that some governments claim you already owe money before you are cleared in.

Furthermore, isn't it true that any vessel can claim the right to stay 72 hours to make emergency repairs? Which countries allow for this? Doesn't this conflict with advance notice of arrival or areas which require permits to access?

Various laws may conflict here, and in the end money will encourage officials will perform illegal acts, for example breaking international treaties that they don't even know about. Which countries should be specifically avoided for this reason, and which countries are known to be tolerant of this?

Is there a list of countries which are possible to visit legally if there exists no money on the boat? I am interested to know even in cases where it's possible to stay only 24 hours.
1. If you arrive in a foreign country via your own yacht, you are considered rich by any standard.

2. When dealing with local officials, the last thing you want to bring up is your rights or "international treaties. You won't go any where.

3. It boils down to is to do your homework before departing. Be aware of any potential bride needed for safe entry. If it doesn't meet your standard, don't go there.

Please don't try to teach them how to run their country and thinking that you are better than them.
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Old 26-02-2016, 08:48   #15
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Re: refusing arrival fees

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I would like to know about any possible complications if you were to arrive in a new country, be presented with fees which turn out to be too high for you to afford so instead you offer to get back on your boat and leave immediately instead.
Best if you can anchor and determine charges over the radio on arrival. Beware if the answer is you must come ashore to learn the answers, and or there is a language issue. Once ashore it's a totally different game. Last time I arrived in Suva a friend was checking out after the authorities arrived at his boat, only to be confronted with another 'hidden' fee. He radioed to warn me. My attempt to get radio clarification from the authorities concerning this charge was unsuccessful. So, having already visited Fijii once, I hauled anchor and was gone before sunup the following morning. More stories that include the Dominican Republic and Maldives in particular. The 'cancer' of charges cruisers will increasingly encounter over time, subject to wide variation in amount assessed 'depending' upon your apparent ability to pay and whether or not the 'agent' has a lock on the business, is a requirement you use an 'agent' to clear in.

Regarding the 72 hours to make repair.. Yes, but it only applies to commercial shipping, not pleasure craft. No harm in trying though...



Quote:
As far as I can tell this practice is perfectly legal but I have heard reports that some governments claim you already owe money before you are cleared in.

Furthermore, isn't it true that any vessel can claim the right to stay 72 hours to make emergency repairs? Which countries allow for this? Doesn't this conflict with advance notice of arrival or areas which require permits to access?

Various laws may conflict here, and in the end money will encourage officials will perform illegal acts, for example breaking international treaties that they don't even know about. Which countries should be specifically avoided for this reason, and which countries are known to be tolerant of this?
Quote:
Is there a list of countries which are possible to visit legally if there exists no money on the boat? I am interested to know even in cases where it's possible to stay only 24 hours.
'Lists' of any kind warning sailors are few and far between. But, you can possibly cobble together some sense of what's happening by visiting sites like Noonsite, and of course doing what you're doing here. One caveat. Information you find anywhere today can change tomorrow.
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