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Old 29-02-2016, 12:33   #46
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pirate Re: Refusing Arrival Fees

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Originally Posted by jeanathon View Post
Without the legal right to work in that country, your advice could prove problematic .
I've yet to get to a country that does not have a few people only too happy to cash in on cheap labour.. just got to do it the old fashioned way.. shoe leather and face to face.. not a bulk e-mail with CV..
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Old 29-02-2016, 13:22   #47
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Re: Refusing Arrival Fees

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Originally Posted by jeanathon View Post
Without the legal right to work in that country, your advice could prove problematic .
You have never worked where you, legally, should not? Well, there is still plenty of budget cruising ahead of you then.

IMHO if your only choice is to bug out and look for better luck elsewhere, then there is not much to discuss. Take heaps of water on, make sure your fishing tackle is ample and sail on.

If one really gets stuck, one can sell their boat and fly onwards to 'where they legally can'.

Agree? Disagree?

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Old 29-02-2016, 15:29   #48
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Re: Refusing Arrival Fees

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Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
You have never worked where you, legally, should not? Well, there is still plenty of budget cruising ahead of you then.

IMHO if your only choice is to bug out and look for better luck elsewhere, then there is not much to discuss. Take heaps of water on, make sure your fishing tackle is ample and sail on.

If one really gets stuck, one can sell their boat and fly onwards to 'where they legally can'.

Agree? Disagree?

b.
I doubt that BA's boat would fetch enough for an airfare to anywhere
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Old 29-02-2016, 16:23   #49
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Re: Refusing Arrival Fees

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Originally Posted by StuM View Post
I doubt that BA's boat would fetch enough for an airfare to anywhere
I do not know the boat. But I know that a guy in XIXth century biked from Paris to Cape Town and back ...

Catch as you can and do NOT over-worry the arrival fees. To pay the fees, first you must arrive.

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Old 29-02-2016, 16:26   #50
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Re: Refusing Arrival Fees

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Originally Posted by boat_alexandra View Post
I would like to know about any possible complications if you were to arrive in a new country, be presented with fees which turn out to be too high for you to afford so instead you offer to get back on your boat and leave immediately instead.

As far as I can tell this practice is perfectly legal but I have heard reports that some governments claim you already owe money before you are cleared in.

Furthermore, isn't it true that any vessel can claim the right to stay 72 hours to make emergency repairs? Which countries allow for this? Doesn't this conflict with advance notice of arrival or areas which require permits to access?

Various laws may conflict here, and in the end money will encourage officials will perform illegal acts, for example breaking international treaties that they don't even know about. Which countries should be specifically avoided for this reason, and which countries are known to be tolerant of this?

Is there a list of countries which are possible to visit legally if there exists no money on the boat? I am interested to know even in cases where it's possible to stay only 24 hours.
To claim an emergency you would need to declare such before arriving.

To do what you suggest would see your boat impounded in many countries.

This type of issue is why fees and rules increase in complexity.

Tahiti is a case in point. They had so many boats turn up and not leave that they demand a bond to repatriate visitors by boat. Unless you obtain a valid visa before arrival.

The onus is on you to have access to funds as needed. It is not the visiting responsibility to give you a free pass.

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Old 29-02-2016, 16:32   #51
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Re: Refusing Arrival Fees

Boat and Barn,
I agree cheap labor will always be in demand.
I was commenting on those who would have him follow the letter of the law, yet advocate him breaking labor laws vs check in laws or maybe that was vice versa .
You do what you gotta do.
Personally I'm legal to work on two continents and their islands. Kinda funny to have to ask permission to work though .

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Old 29-02-2016, 16:49   #52
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pirate Re: Refusing Arrival Fees

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Originally Posted by jeanathon View Post
Boat and Barn,
I agree cheap labor will always be in demand.
I was commenting on those who would have him follow the letter of the law, yet advocate him breaking labor laws vs check in laws or maybe that was vice versa .
You do what you gotta do.
Personally I'm legal to work on two continents and their islands. Kinda funny to have to ask permission to work though .

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It is better to bend the law in a country you wish to leave.. than try to bend the law of a country on arrival.
The former is likely to be more sympathetic than the latter.. one is happy your going....
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Old 29-02-2016, 17:00   #53
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Re: Refusing Arrival Fees

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Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
It is better to bend the law in a country you wish to leave.. than try to bend the law of a country on arrival.
The former is likely to be more sympathetic than the latter.. one is happy your going....
Aemmm. Just make sure your passport isn't under the control of immigration before you 'bend' any laws. Refused to pay unexpected anchoring fees in Trinidad. The immigration official 're-filed' my passport in a filing cabinet and shut the drawer. Message well taken, I paid...
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Old 29-02-2016, 17:13   #54
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pirate Re: Refusing Arrival Fees

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Originally Posted by Wrong View Post
Aemmm. Just make sure your passport isn't under the control of immigration before you 'bend' any laws. Refused to pay unexpected anchoring fees in Trinidad. The immigration official 're-filed' my passport in a filing cabinet and shut the drawer. Message well taken, I paid...
As I said in post #?.. I always pay the 1st week on arrival..
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Old 01-03-2016, 01:52   #55
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Re: Refusing Arrival Fees

Of course it depends on the country. In a lot of countries, hard labor will earn you barely enough to eat and the locals won't be happy about the competition.

Reality is if you put yourself in this kind of position intentionally, you deserve what they do to you (as opposed to having a good plan, respecting the law and then midway thru things go wrong)
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Old 01-03-2016, 02:08   #56
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Re: refusing arrival fees

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
I used to ferry aircraft quite a bit down into South America.
My experience at least with aircraft is if you don't pay the fees, even inflated ones that aren't official, they impound the aircraft, and possibly incarcerate you.
I was always real nice, sometimes played stupid, and paid as little as I could get away with and was never locked up, but from other guys experiences, if you escalated things, it usually didn't go well.

I'd try playing stupid, be VERY nice and apologetic and offer to leave right away, never, ever, denigrate them, maybe even tipping the official if that seemed to be where it was going, but obviously if your impoverished yourself you can't tip much.
But being friendly, treating them as if they were some kind of high official, and downplaying your own importance seems to go a long way.

The flipside of that is often wearing the silly white collared shirt with Captains bars on the epilet also seemed to make things a lot easier too, made you look official too I guess.
The voice of wisdom and experience

This is the exact and complete answer to the OP's question.
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Old 01-03-2016, 03:02   #57
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Re: Refusing Arrival Fees

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Originally Posted by Wrong View Post
Best if you can anchor and determine charges over the radio on arrival. Beware if the answer is you must come ashore to learn the answers, and or there is a language issue. Once ashore it's a totally different game. Last time I arrived in Suva a friend was checking out after the authorities arrived at his boat, only to be confronted with another 'hidden' fee. He radioed to warn me. My attempt to get radio clarification from the authorities concerning this charge was unsuccessful. So, having already visited Fijii once, I hauled anchor and was gone before sunup the following morning. More stories that include the Dominican Republic and Maldives in particular. The 'cancer' of charges cruisers will increasingly encounter over time, subject to wide variation in amount assessed 'depending' upon your apparent ability to pay and whether or not the 'agent' has a lock on the business, is a requirement you use an 'agent' to clear in.

Regarding the 72 hours to make repair.. Yes, but it only applies to commercial shipping, not pleasure craft. No harm in trying though...
Many ports use the same paperwork as for the ships, so maybe in those countries it is the same. Where does it say applies to commercial shipping? Also I can simply state that I am also involved in commercial shipping with any private vessel.



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Originally Posted by Lizzy Belle View Post
I think you're referring to the Concept of Innocent Passage in the Territorial Sea?

Article 17:
Subject to this Convention, ships of all States, whether coastal or land-locked, enjoy the right of innocent passage through the territorial sea.
So essentially if you are less than 12 miles and dont want to clear in, just raise the Q flag, then lower it when you are more than 12 miles. If you need to anchor it is ok, as long as you stay on board.

This seems sensible but I believe some countries dont allow anchoring before clearing in so in this case you should try to contact someone via radio to inform them of your emergency.

You can argue running out of food or water is not an emergency, but to me it is. This is of course unlikely to happen unless there are other problems (like losing rig or being robbed by pirates)

Quote:
Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
You have never worked where you, legally, should not? Well, there is still plenty of budget cruising ahead of you then.

IMHO if your only choice is to bug out and look for better luck elsewhere, then there is not much to discuss. Take heaps of water on, make sure your fishing tackle is ample and sail on.

If one really gets stuck, one can sell their boat and fly onwards to 'where they legally can'.

Agree? Disagree?

b.
Disagree It is more reasonable to suggest becoming crew on another sailboat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by StuM View Post
I doubt that BA's boat would fetch enough for an airfare to anywhere
Its probably true.



Thanks for all the replies. Basically since I am headed for the carribean (leaving today) I am glad to get some additional information. In some cases, fees are charged for anchoring which is actually illegal (like simons town) so while noonsite might list them, they dont have to be paid. Or in the case of all of south africa the authorities require that you check into the marina of the private yacht club which is why I know of several boats (including myself) who left south africa without clearance only to have no problems in namibia and save a lot of money and hassle.

Some countries like new zealand decided to detain my boat and put it on the hard for a week because they didnt like the look of it. Even though it was completely illegal to do this, they did it anyway.

It makes me curious of the trap mentioned where the authorities inform all the nearby countries that you have left without their permission. According to international treaties (I know doesnt apply to all countries) you have the right to leave for any reason, so they technically dont have the right to stop you, but of course they may decide to interpret this to mean that you only have the right to leave if you pay them money.

Whichever country you arrive in, I believe many do not have the right to refuse you under their own laws for this, but in some maybe they can refuse you.. I am curious to know of cases where they can or actually did do worse than this, by taking the boat or arresting you.
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Old 01-03-2016, 03:17   #58
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Re: Refusing Arrival Fees

The mind boggles at why anyone would sail to another country, organise visa and follow other arrival expectations and would then pick up a fuss at paying any arrival fees expected surely part of cruising seamanship is preparation?
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Old 01-03-2016, 03:49   #59
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pirate Re: Refusing Arrival Fees

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Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
The mind boggles at why anyone would sail to another country, organise visa and follow other arrival expectations and would then pick up a fuss at paying any arrival fees expected surely part of cruising seamanship is preparation?
That's where his problem lies Rustic.. and what a lot off folks are completely missing it seems..
If I sail from Portugal down to Morocco for example I do not apply for a visa before hand.. no need.. its part of the arrival process and 'Clearing In'.
The countries that require Visa's pre-arrival are still relatively few and share the same paranoia's.. Russia, China, Korea, most Islamic States and the USA.. everywhere else is much more relaxed about it.. but to many start taking the piss and those may start closing their doors till it gets draconian and near impossible to leave Home Waters without six months of paperwork.
The fantasies 'BoatA' seems to have is that the world can be travelled as it was 75years ago when one could circumnavigate without a passport is just that.. a Fantasy.
Ignore most of this crap about bribes etc.. that's generally sour grapes bullshit.. unless one is trying to dig their way back out of the **** they created by not following the local rules.
Since time immemorial strangers arriving by sea bearing gifts are welcomed.. those without were considered unfriendly and put on the menu..
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Old 01-03-2016, 03:53   #60
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Re: Refusing Arrival Fees

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That's where his problem lies Rustic.. and what a lot off folks are completely missing it seems..
If I sail from Portugal down to Morocco for example I do not apply for a visa before hand.. no need.. its part of the arrival process and 'Clearing In'.
The countries that require Visa's pre-arrival are still relatively few and share the same paranoia's.. Russia, China, Korea, most Islamic States and the USA.. everywhere else is much more relaxed about it.. but to many start taking the piss and those may start closing their doors till it gets draconian and near impossible to leave Home Waters without six months of paperwork.
The fantasies 'BoatA' seems to have is that the world can be travelled as it was 75years ago when one could circumnavigate without a passport is just that.. a Fantasy.
Ignore most of this crap about bribes etc.. that's generally sour grapes bullshit.. unless one is trying to dig their way back out of the **** they created by not following the local rules.
Since time immemorial strangers arriving by sea bearing gifts are welcomed.. those without were considered unfriendly and put on the menu..
You dont mince words boaty

Australia also requires visa processing pre arrival.
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