Member Map Go to the Home Page Portal Cruisers & Sailing Forum Cruisers & Sailing Photo Gallery Manage Your Profile! Member Directory Search past discussions! Frequently Asked Questions Community Policies & Posting Rules Register Today, Its FREE!

Go Back   Cruisers & Sailing Forums > The Life Aquatic Aboard a Boat > Rules of the Road, Regulations & Red Tape





Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 27-05-2009, 10:05   #1
KCee
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 4
Post Red Tape

I have been searching threads and other websites to no avail.
I am researching buying a 33' cat and am budgeting immediate and annual 'red tape' costs.

I am a Canadian living legally (meaning with FM3 status) in Mexico and I am looking at a cat for sale in Panama registered in the US.
Basically I want to liveaboard here in Mexico, but next summer sail up to Toronto and eventually do a circumnavigation.
What do I need in regards to permits, licenses, registrations, etc? I have absolutely NO IDEA!

I would appreciate the answers, or a place I can go to get answers.
Thank you.

KCee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2009, 07:04   #2
KCee
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 4
Ummmmm....

.....ummmm..... still waiting..... um........... ...tick....tick.... tick.... .......
KCee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2009, 07:21   #3
Southern Star
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Belleville, Ontario, Canada; Playa Zaragoza, Isla de Margarita
Boat: 1994 Solaris Sunstream 40 'Estrella del Sur'
Posts: 1,009
KCee, there IS no one answer to your question. If you want to get a Canadian registration for you boat, you will end up paying taxes and possibly duty, as well. I cannot speak to a Mexican registration, but suspect the same would be true. Either way, you WILL end up paying in order to change the registration; furthermore, in the course of your travels, if you overstay at many destinations (read for example the recent thread on paying VAT in Spain if staying more than 6 months), you may have to do it again.

Can you avoid all of this by keeping the US registration? Doubtful, as you are not a resident of the US.

Brad
Southern Star is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2009, 07:53   #4
KCee
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 4
Hi Brad,
What would be the implications of registering the boat in the name of a friend who lives in the US and getting permission or rental letters from that person?
KCee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2009, 08:42   #5
Southern Star
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Belleville, Ontario, Canada; Playa Zaragoza, Isla de Margarita
Boat: 1994 Solaris Sunstream 40 'Estrella del Sur'
Posts: 1,009
KCee, I am not licensed to practice law in the United States but I forsee the following problems:
1. Your friend is not the owner and unless he/she is a fool, why would they want to take on the potential liablitly issues ?
2. Only the owner can get insurance.
3. Checking in an out of foreign ports can be complicated enough for the owner of the vessel - I for one wouldn't want to be attempting to do the same based upon a letter of permission, or a rental agreement.
4. Even assuming that the fraudulent owner is prepared to obtain insurance, I can only imagine the difficulties that would arise if you attempted to make a claim when the owner is not, and has not been the operator of the vessel.
5. You and your friend would be committing a fraud in order to effect the registration.

Brad
Southern Star is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2009, 09:15   #6
TaoJones
Moderator
 
TaoJones's Avatar
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora la Reina de los Ángeles sobre El Río Porciuncula, Alta California
Posts: 3,435
Since the vessel is already in Panama, and you will presumably have to go there to sail her back to Mexico, why not set up an IBC there (in Panama). The IBC would hold title to the vessel, and the vessel represents the assets of the IBC. You hold all of the outstanding stock of the IBC, and can do so anonymously.

Many vessels fly Panamanian flags of convenience, so customs and immigrations authorities worldwide are used to seeing that. Sailing such a vessel into Mexican waters would be no different than sailing a US or Canadian vessel into Mexican waters. As long as the paperwork is legitimate, accurate and complete, the authorities will be satisfied.

TaoJones
__________________
"Your vision becomes clear only when you look into your own heart. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks within, awakens." Carl Gustav Jung (1875-1961)
TaoJones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2009, 10:26   #7
Southern Star
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Belleville, Ontario, Canada; Playa Zaragoza, Isla de Margarita
Boat: 1994 Solaris Sunstream 40 'Estrella del Sur'
Posts: 1,009
You may be right Tao, on the other hand the boat is currently is registered in the US and not Panama. While many commercial vessels are registered in Panama as a 'flag of convenience', I have always understood that this was in order to avoid the more stringent inspection/certification requirements in the US/Canada etc., and to get more favourable income tax rates. I would assume that there will still be taxes/duties associated with the importation to/registration in Panama, plus the cost of setting up the corporation, plus (likely) annual tax filings - all without the benefits that motivate commercial shipping.

Brad
Southern Star is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2009, 10:31   #8
imagine2frolic
Registered User
 
imagine2frolic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: N.E. Florida
Boat: Simpson, Catamaran, 46ft. IMAGINE
Posts: 3,125
Images: 112
There are states in the U.S. that do not require taxes until the vessel hits their soil. Canada maybe the sameway? I would think much research is needed, or a lawyer. Taxes can be avoided in many ways, but it must be legally, or sooner, or later you will pay, and it may be more than just money........BEST WISHES in figuring it out LEGALLY!.........i2f
__________________
BORROWED! No single one of us is as smart as all of us!

SAILING is not always a slick magazine cover!
imagine2frolic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2009, 10:34   #9
KCee
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 4
Thanks for the info so far.... all excellent food for thought.... it's getting a little advanced for me..... I have been searching for info that basically lays it out in a list.... and I am not sure if I am missing anything here......
1) buy boat
2) register boat with one country
3) possible pay duties and taxes of country most residing in?
possible get licenses/ permits/ health inspections/ oceanworthiness inspections/ ?????
4) buy insurance
5) start sailing in Europe
6) apply for visas? passes? permission to enter waters?... or.....
7) ....show up at customs unannounced with paperwork and passports and prepared to pay aproximately what to travel coastline of that country?

I am not sure how any of this works... maybe this would be a good book for sale? I have been looking but not finding.... and of COURSE it would all have to be legal...

Last edited by KCee; 09-06-2009 at 10:38. Reason: needed to add something
KCee is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
canada, license, mexico, permit, registration

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Ultimate in Red Tape! ssullivan Rules of the Road, Regulations & Red Tape 23 17-10-2009 02:04
How Much Red Tape in the Mediterranean? areso70 Europe & the Mediterranean 33 30-09-2009 08:38
Red tape for buying boat in USA Daisydog Rules of the Road, Regulations & Red Tape 7 19-06-2008 16:19
New Red Tape for Caribbean Cruisers Hud3 Cruising News & Events 53 03-12-2007 23:11
Duct tape Pisces Cruising with Children 2 20-07-2007 23:56


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 00:00.


Other Social Knowledge forum communities:
Cooking Forum - Sailing Forum - Early Retirement - Airstream Trailer - Aquarium Forum - Royal Forum - Book Forum - Volkswagen Touareg Forum - Jeep Wrangler Forum - Whitewater Kayaking & Rafting Forum - Fiberglass RV Forum - RV Forum - Truck Conversion - U2 Music Forum
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.3.0
© copyright 2002-2009 Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.