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Old 01-04-2014, 13:03   #46
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Re: Red over white....

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Originally Posted by nigel1 View Post
. By then my bucket of at least 5 short blasts was empty, so just gave them that "that look".

Bet they won't do that again.

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Old 01-04-2014, 14:24   #47
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Re: Red over white....

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The restriction in our ability to maneuver didn't result from our speed but from the need to follow a predetermined track (2 straight legs on reciprocal headings, connected by turns with a specified rudder angle). Then, I thought that our ability to maneuver was sufficiently restricted to justify displaying the corresponding lights. We were almost as restricted as when launching aircraft or surveying. Anyway, I had no part in the decision, I was merely running the trial.

Alain
As an amateur sailor, I wonder if in this situation it would have been appropriate for your vessel to broadcast a "Securite" stating your intentions and requesting other vessels to stay clear of your course? We hear this sort of broadcast often in the Bass Straights area when there are geological survey ships working their mysterious jobs, towing seismic arrays.

Seems like a reasonable process to me... is it?

Jim
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Old 01-04-2014, 14:27   #48
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Re: Red over white....

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Bet they won't do that again.

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Bet they will
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Old 01-04-2014, 14:38   #49
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Re: Red over white....

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
As an amateur sailor, I wonder if in this situation it would have been appropriate for your vessel to broadcast a "Securite" stating your intentions and requesting other vessels to stay clear of your course? We hear this sort of broadcast often in the Bass Straights area when there are geological survey ships working their mysterious jobs, towing seismic arrays.

Seems like a reasonable process to me... is it?

Jim
Yes, indeed! This could be added in our standard trial protocol, as a suggestion to the Navy (we can't give them orders).

In fact, I think we arranged for a Notice to Mariners being emitted but you need to have a Navtex receiver working or be in VHF range from shore to receive the broadcast from signal stations.

Alain
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Old 01-04-2014, 14:58   #50
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Re: Red over white....

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
As an amateur sailor, I wonder if in this situation it would have been appropriate for your vessel to broadcast a "Securite" stating your intentions and requesting other vessels to stay clear of your course? We hear this sort of broadcast often in the Bass Straights area when there are geological survey ships working their mysterious jobs, towing seismic arrays.

Seems like a reasonable process to me... is it?

Jim
Perfectly reasonable Jim,

Similar to the Bass Straits, up in the North Sea we broadcast Securite messages. Initial broadcast on 16, and also by DSC, plus we use the SMS feature available on Class A AIS transponders.
Despite all that, other boats still want to get in the way, and usually its commercial traffic.
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Old 01-04-2014, 15:10   #51
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Re: Red over white....

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Not exactly Five short blasts means "I do not understand your intentions". However it is frequently used for attention getting - albeit not correctly so.

I think Steve's interpretation is pretty close, though, too. The 34d phrase after "fails to understand the intention or actions of the other" addresses when one "is in doubt whether sufficient action is being taken by the other to avoid collision." Steve's "wake up, turn off the AP, don't hit me" comes sorta close to that

Interesting it's not actually labeled the "danger signal" in that rule, but there are several other rules that do actually point to "the danger signal" described in 34d...

Edit: Ah, I see now that was all addressed already. Disregard

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Old 02-04-2014, 09:31   #52
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Re: Red over white....

Here's a recent incident regarding a fishing boat and a bulk carrier, well documented.

AIS Animation Shows Collision of Baltic Breeze Car Carrier and Mar de Marin - gCaptain Maritime & Offshore News
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Old 02-04-2014, 12:26   #53
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Old 02-04-2014, 12:38   #54
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Re: Red over white....

From what I understand, sport fishing is where someone pays to be on someone else's boat to go fishing. What technique is used does not define if it is a sport fishing boat or not. The term sport fishing is not found in the COLREG's.

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Then again, take a license course and actually learn the rules a little bit. They are a handful to learn. It's not so simple as: I'm a sailboat, everyone get outta my way.
Actually, I am a graduate of California Maritime Academy and spent four years pretty much memorizing the COLREGS, learning the meanings of all the COLRGS, studying court cases and got a 100% on the Rules exam for what is now an unlimited oceans, any tonnage license with an unlimited radar endorsement, towing endorsement and sailing endorsement.

What has been your education regarding the COLREG's Cappy?
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Old 02-04-2014, 13:57   #55
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Re: Red over white....

Lancerbye in post #12 has it right IMO. Having worked aboard commercial fish boats for many years, except trawlers, and also worked Halibut boats to Alaska which are similar to long line vessels, give them all a wide berth because in addition to not being too maneuverable, you can lose a lot of expense gear if you find yourself in an avoidance mode due to the inconsideration of pleasure craft. Other commercial vessels normally communicate regularly by VHF so there are few surprises.
With gillnetters, around river mouths, we used to make our set then go to sleep and drift with an anchor light on the main vessel and a small white light on the buoy on the end of the gillnet. Gillnetters, in particular, will offset their sets and can be a bitch to navigate through. The mouth of the Fraser River and Rivers Inlet in the PNW used to be a real adventure to find yourway through at night. Be careful out there... Phil
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Old 02-04-2014, 14:10   #56
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Re: Red over white....

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FWIW,

A good discussion of oft misinterpreted rules... thanks to all who helped me get the definitions of various fishing activities straight.

But it brings up one of my pet peeves: fishing vessels which routinely display their day and night "engaged in fishing/trawling" signals when not engaged in those activities. As in when steaming full speed in and out of harbour, at their dock, at the fuel wharf... all of which I see on the East coast of Oz. Oh, and lets not forget the dive boats with "diver down" flags displayed 24/7.

These common practices somewhat dilute the desire to follow the avoidance rules. I still try to do the right thing, but it gets my goat at times when I go to some trouble to steer around an ostensible trawler at night, only to find him making way at six or seven knots with his gear up when I am within visual inspection distance.

Cheers,

Jim
I would be inclined to cut you a fair bit of slack because you are in Tasmania and the signal lights may be upside down but when driving commercial seine boats in the PNW (Pacific North West) years ago, when we were actively fishing, this did means that while we were sitting looking for fish (jumpers, finners, and other signs of a school) we lit up the appropriate lights because we could make a set within less than a minute so it was prudent to be lit up. Pulling fish on a troller on the west coast of Vancouver Island, we started fishing before dawn and when you are in the fish box pulling gurdies and rebaiting, you don't really take the time to go to the wheelhouse to shut down your light array. If you need to hit the heads, you might flick the switch on the way by but you definitely do not make a trip forward to do that.
Just sayin' what used to be the practice back in the day... Phil
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Old 03-04-2014, 01:38   #57
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Re: Red over white....

We sail freqrently at night around fishing grounds. These boats are so lit up with work lights that it is damn near impoosible to see their navigation lights. That alsso means it is damn near impossible to see if they are laying still, coming towards you, away from you or crossing.
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Old 04-04-2014, 09:36   #58
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Re: Red over white....

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What has been your education regarding the COLREG's Cappy?

My education has been self taught, studying for over 34 years. I have a 1600 ton oceans, DE first class Pilotage, and State Pilotage. besides that, being a DE allows me to regularly teach such alumni from 'Calmaritime' and others with just about as much Hubris as you have shown in your response. Once I 'beat the braggadocio' out of them, a few actually matriculate into an actual watch standing Mate on a Tug. I don't assume anything. Neither should you.

Even though you assume my comment was meant for you, there are hundreds of other readers who 'think' they are 'up' on the rules. It is those, who through reading this post and may realize that this topic 'doesn't make sense' and they need a formal introduction to the Colregs.
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