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Old 22-08-2011, 09:24   #1
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Red over Red - Not Under Command (NUC) Lights

G'day,
Coversation redireced to here...

Questions to be answered:
  1. When is it appropriate to show the Red over Red, Not Under Command Signal (NUC)?
  2. Should a single handed skipper show these signals when no watch is being kept?
  3. Does the NUC definition include inability to manouver due to the skipper not being consious to command the vessel?
  4. What alternative signal should be used to indicate that you are resting whilst not making way?
Discuss:
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Old 22-08-2011, 09:33   #2
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Re: Red over Red - Not Under Command (NUC) Lights

NUC should be used when the vessel it's self has a major malfunction and not because the skipper wants to snooze.
(OPINION Only) You might want to use the Red/white/Red for a single hander. But that isn't quite right also. Neither is a flashing strobe at the truck (distress).
There are no single handing signals yet to be regonized by any legal authorities. Which does puts us between the rock and the hard place.
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Old 22-08-2011, 09:41   #3
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Re: Red over Red - Not Under Command (NUC) Lights

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Originally Posted by boasun View Post
NUC should be used when the vessel it's self has a major malfunction and not because the skipper wants to snooze.
(OPINION Only) You might want to use the Red/white/Red for a single hander. But that isn't quite right also. Neither is a flashing strobe at the truck (distress).
There are no single handing signals yet to be regonized by any legal authorities. Which does puts us between the rock and the hard place.
I agree with you. The only signal that I think conveys the desired information is an 'M' signal flag "I am not Making way". Showing NUC moves your vessel to the highest stand-on priority, and can adversely affect other vessels. However, I continualy run into skippers that think such usage of NUC is okay. Can a skipper be fined for doing this?
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Old 22-08-2011, 10:12   #4
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Re: Red over Red - Not Under Command (NUC) Lights

Any reason why this is in the Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar forum?

Admins?
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Old 22-08-2011, 10:14   #5
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Re: Red over Red - Not Under Command (NUC) Lights

Red over red-the captain is dead.
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Old 22-08-2011, 11:10   #6
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Re: Red over Red - Not Under Command (NUC) Lights

As a single hander with a few miles under the keel, think it would be nice to be able to display some sort of signal that I'm not on watch. Not under command is about the only one that gives some indication of what I want to convey. It's not that I want right of way over every Tom, Dick and Harry but that the boat is doing it's own thing without me. Other wise, more as a courtesy so any affected vessels know early that they might need to make a minor course correction to avoid me. That's something that even a very big ship can do easily if given enough heads up.

If you've never made an offshore passage of more than a few days, you don't know what it's like to single hand. There is no way you'll be able to be on watch 24/7 and you'll be lucky to make it 16/7.

I'm sure the powers that be aren't losing sleep over not having a single handed light display. It's something that may not have entered their mind and probably something that they wouldn't consider in any case. I'm sure they don't want to encourage us 'crazy' single handers, and certainly don't want every boat out there flashing the signal when they'd rather sleep through a watch on a multi crew vessel.
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Old 22-08-2011, 11:16   #7
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I have no trouble at all with the idea of a dedicated single handed signal just it's not NUC

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Old 22-08-2011, 15:52   #8
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Re: Red over Red - Not Under Command (NUC) Lights

There is the Sailing vessel lights. All around Red over Green lights. From what everyone have stated here, I know of no one that have used them yet... But they are an Idenity lights for sail boats. Maybe a single hander Rigged those lights at the top of his/her mast and use deck level Nav. lights. This may/will help in Identifying you as a sail boat and hopefully you won't end up like that boat in Cowes.
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Old 22-08-2011, 16:04   #9
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Re: Red over Red - Not Under Command (NUC) Lights

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for them to designate lights/shapes for "not maintaining required watch". Until the requirement to maintain a watch is changed it isn't going to happen. NUC isn't even close actually since it requires an "exceptional circumstance" and I don't think a nap qualifies (I've had some great naps, but hardly exceptional :-))
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Old 22-08-2011, 16:12   #10
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Re: Red over Red - Not Under Command (NUC) Lights

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Originally Posted by boasun View Post
NUC should be used when the vessel it's self has a major malfunction and not because the skipper wants to snooze.
This is because the rules presume that a proper watch will always be maintained. If that is not the case, "not under command" is useful to warn other craft your vessel will not maneuver. Such a signal is a lesser sin than not keeping proper watch.
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Old 22-08-2011, 17:20   #11
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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
I have no trouble at all with the idea of a dedicated single handed signal just it's not NUC
+1. Besides, how are you going to show red over red while under sail? My boat surely didn't come with the necessary equipment.

The powers that be will never agree to a snooze signal, because in their eyes it would be tantamount to proclaiming, "I'm breaking COLREGS Rule #5."
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Old 22-08-2011, 17:36   #12
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Re: Red over Red - Not Under Command (NUC) Lights

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Originally Posted by roverhi View Post
As a single hander with a few miles under the keel, think it would be nice to be able to display some sort of signal that I'm not on watch. Not under command is about the only one that gives some indication of what I want to convey. It's not that I want right of way over every Tom, Dick and Harry but that the boat is doing it's own thing without me. Other wise, more as a courtesy so any affected vessels know early that they might need to make a minor course correction to avoid me. That's something that even a very big ship can do easily if given enough heads up.

If you've never made an offshore passage of more than a few days, you don't know what it's like to single hand. There is no way you'll be able to be on watch 24/7 and you'll be lucky to make it 16/7.

I'm sure the powers that be aren't losing sleep over not having a single handed light display. It's something that may not have entered their mind and probably something that they wouldn't consider in any case. I'm sure they don't want to encourage us 'crazy' single handers, and certainly don't want every boat out there flashing the signal when they'd rather sleep through a watch on a multi crew vessel.
My thoughts exactly...and to my knowledge there is NO exact definition of exceptional circumstance where a vessel cannot meet the rules so a single hander sleeping could VERY WELL fit the description....
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Old 22-08-2011, 17:40   #13
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Re: Red over Red - Not Under Command (NUC) Lights

I saw early this morning an outbound tanker with a very fast flashing red 360 light. I have seen these before on oil tankers and ships carrying other hazardous cargo plenty of times. It reminded me of this thread and the related thread on the same topic. The light flashed faster than one time per second maybe around 1.5 times per second, which in the COLREG's there is no such light although required in some areas. It also cannot be confused for any other nav light.

My thoughts are it would attract the attention of another ship AND could not be confused with any nav light or light configuration in the COLREG's.

This might be an idea for singlehanders...opinions? I would not like to see it abused though so that it eventually becomes the Boy Who Cry's Wolf with ships with hazardous cargo.
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Old 22-08-2011, 17:51   #14
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Re: Red over Red - Not Under Command (NUC) Lights

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How funny it would look to someone who knows the rules to see a boat sailing along holding its course showing two vertical reds. That same boat might as well fly the anchor ball during the day as well.
I've actually seen that! If someone is running (incorrectly) both their deck-level running lights and a masthead tri-color, and you view it from just the right angle....
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Old 22-08-2011, 18:05   #15
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Re: Red over Red - Not Under Command (NUC) Lights

Actually...the only lights that MAKE sense are NUC...a sigle handed vessel with the only person on board sleeping will NOT be able to comply with the rules...therefore NUC....RAM is less appropriate because it's not specifically spelled out or the more common term "by nature of the vessel's work".

What other lights would tell another vessel that yours WILL NOT comply with the rules because you are asleep...without drastically changing what is going on like showing aground lights in 1000 fathoms?
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