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Old 24-08-2011, 19:41   #106
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Re: Red over Red - Not Under Command (NUC) Lights

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Originally Posted by Viking Sailor View Post
Yes it is!
No it is not, as it is a choice of the skipper to fall asleep and not maintain watch. Rule 5 " Every Vessel Shall at all time provide a proper lookout by sight and hearing..." Just because you have chosen to sleep does not mean you can just choose to not comply. IF YOUR RUDDER FALLS OFF AND YOUR SAILS BLOW AWAY AND YOUR ENGINE SIEZES THEN BY ALL MEANS PUT N.U.C ON AND SLEEP FOR AS LONG AS YOU LIKE....
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Old 24-08-2011, 20:02   #107
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Re: Red over Red - Not Under Command (NUC) Lights

To end my point one should look at Rule 36 Signals to Attract Attention
"If Neccesary to attract the attention of another vessel any vessel may make light or sound signals that cannot be mistaken for any signal authorized elsewhere in these Rules...Any light...cannot be mistaken for any aid to navigation"

So what signals could be used to attract attention? Blue over Yellow strobes?

Saying that the Italian drift net fishermen use a white strobe over constant all round red to show the location of the extremities of the drift net. Any one who has sailed in the med knows to avoid 6nm wide drift nets, so perhaps those signals could work when put on a sailing vessel?? As they are not in the rules and therefore can only be mistaken for a drift net it could work in letting other vessels know your position.
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Old 24-08-2011, 20:09   #108
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Re: Red over Red - Not Under Command (NUC) Lights

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Originally Posted by Gracies View Post
To end my point one should look at Rule 36 Signals to Attract Attention
"If Neccesary to attract the attention of another vessel any vessel may make light or sound signals that cannot be mistaken for any signal authorized elsewhere in these Rules...Any light...cannot be mistaken for any aid to navigation"

So what signals could be used to attract attention? Blue over Yellow strobes?
Strobes are to be avoided.

Quote:
If necessary to attract the attention of another vessel any vessel
may make light or sound signals that cannot be mistaken for any signal authorized elsewhere in these Rules, or may direct the beam of
her searchlight in the direction of the danger, in such a way as not to
embarrass any vessel. Any light to attract the attention of another vessel shall be such that it cannot be mistaken for any aid to navigation.
For the purpose of this Rule the use of high intensity intermittant or
revolving lights, such as strobe lights, shall be avoided.
I have had another boat shine a search light on a log that was ahead of me.
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Old 24-08-2011, 20:21   #109
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Re: Red over Red - Not Under Command (NUC) Lights

then when we sail alone maybe its best to sleep during the day in good visibility and keep and maintain a correct watch at night. And if you have to sleep at night, do it in short power naps, out of shipping lanes keeping your normal navigation lights on.

It would be interesting to get information on what the round the world solo racers do on their open 60īs, im pretty sure they dont comply very well with the rules but do they use certain systems for notifying shipping when they are not keeping watch at night??
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Old 24-08-2011, 21:25   #110
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Re: Red over Red - Not Under Command (NUC) Lights

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Originally Posted by boasun View Post
NUC should be used when the vessel it's self has a major malfunction and not because the skipper wants to snooze.
(OPINION Only) You might want to use the Red/white/Red for a single hander. But that isn't quite right also. Neither is a flashing strobe at the truck (distress).
There are no single handing signals yet to be regonized by any legal authorities. Which does puts us between the rock and the hard place.
Technically it's not legal to single-hand on even an overnight trip, as international marine law requires that someone be on watch.
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Old 25-08-2011, 04:52   #111
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Re: Red over Red - Not Under Command (NUC) Lights

Perhaps a single-hander warning light should be a stack of 360 degree reds on a pole mounted above the cabin roof, more or less in the shape of a middle finger.
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Old 25-08-2011, 05:10   #112
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Re: Red over Red - Not Under Command (NUC) Lights

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Originally Posted by Gracies View Post
IF YOUR RUDDER FALLS OFF AND YOUR SAILS BLOW AWAY AND YOUR ENGINE SIEZES THEN BY ALL MEANS PUT N.U.C ON AND SLEEP FOR AS LONG AS YOU LIKE....
Actually I believe a vessel NUC is still obligated to maintain a watch.
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Old 25-08-2011, 06:11   #113
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Re: Red over Red - Not Under Command (NUC) Lights

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Actually I believe a vessel NUC is still obligated to maintain a watch.
That is true.
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Old 25-08-2011, 06:12   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gracies
To end my point one should look at Rule 36 Signals to Attract Attention
"If Neccesary to attract the attention of another vessel any vessel may make light or sound signals that cannot be mistaken for any signal authorized elsewhere in these Rules...Any light...cannot be mistaken for any aid to navigation"

So what signals could be used to attract attention? Blue over Yellow strobes?

Saying that the Italian drift net fishermen use a white strobe over constant all round red to show the location of the extremities of the drift net. Any one who has sailed in the med knows to avoid 6nm wide drift nets, so perhaps those signals could work when put on a sailing vessel?? As they are not in the rules and therefore can only be mistaken for a drift net it could work in letting other vessels know your position.
Sorry your asleep and the boat is left to it's own devices and you want to attract attention ...!!!

Dave
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Old 26-08-2011, 08:49   #115
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Re: Red over Red - Not Under Command (NUC) Lights

I believe that the only thing I have heard of, with regards to single handing is a #1 pennant from the mast top. Which does kinda make sense, not useful at night though. Infact, small/short handed vessels indicating their crew strength with standing flag signal is an interesting idea.
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Old 26-08-2011, 09:46   #116
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Re: Red over Red - Not Under Command (NUC) Lights

Strobes should be saved for emergencies when you need assistance. Although not official, any other usage is an abuse in my opinion.
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Old 27-08-2011, 06:05   #117
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Re: Red over Red - Not Under Command (NUC) Lights

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Originally Posted by Rakuflames View Post
Technically it's not legal to single-hand on even an overnight trip, as international marine law requires that someone be on watch.
I suspect that it is legal, it just means you can't sleep for the duration . It is also possible to get some sleep whilst keeping watch, by limiting sleep to 10min intervals and setting AIS & radar warning alarms... I guess that I am against skipper who think they can get a full 6hr sleep whilst underway, simply because they have two red lights on their mast.


In summary, I believe that the siduation is as follows:
  1. The showing of NUC signal whilst single handed sleeping is acceptable, due to the prudential rule and the need to prevent collisions.
  2. There have been no occasions where authorities have penalised skippers for giving false NUC signals
  3. Such skippers are not absolved of the responsibility to keep watch
  4. This application is outside of the intended definition of NUC
  5. The vessel is not considered NUC in the legal sense, and will not be considered as such by the courts when proportioning blame for an accident.
  6. ... and 2nm lights are not sufficient to be seen by ships at sea anyway.
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Old 27-08-2011, 21:09   #118
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Re: Red over Red - Not Under Command (NUC) Lights

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Originally Posted by TheManWhoSpoke View Post
  • The showing of NUC signal whilst single handed sleeping is acceptable, due to the prudential rule and the need to prevent collisions.
  • There have been no occasions where authorities have penalised skippers for giving false NUC signals
  • Such skippers are not absolved of the responsibility to keep watch
  • This application is outside of the intended definition of NUC
  • The vessel is not considered NUC in the legal sense, and will not be considered as such by the courts when proportioning blame for an accident.
  • ... and 2nm lights are not sufficient to be seen by ships at sea anyway.
You first point is wrong; the vessel is not disabled.

Your fifth point is correct.
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Old 28-08-2011, 02:25   #119
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Re: Red over Red - Not Under Command (NUC) Lights

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You first point is wrong; the vessel is not disabled.

Your fifth point is correct.
show me in the rules the word disabled for NUC....
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Old 28-08-2011, 03:29   #120
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The fundamental point here is that using NUC outside it's accepted definitions is engaging in an attempt to bend the COLREGS into covering something they don't.

Equally you might as well

* sail with tricolour and nav lights as well, sure I'll be seen better

* turn on my anchor , nav, and everything elselights. ( like powerboaters)

*use your stern light on it's own ad a boarding light ( see that thread)

Etc etc

All you are doing is corrupting the COLREGS for you own purposes. Sure do that.

Dave
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