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Old 24-08-2011, 13:11   #91
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Re: Red over Red - Not Under Command (NUC) Lights

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Originally Posted by roverhi View Post
FYI, Maritime law follows the General Prudential rule. If you could be expected to avoid an accident, you are somewhat at fault for the accident. Damages are awarded as a court determines each vessels percentage of blame. In the above court case, looks lilke both were at fault for not keeping a proper watch. The ship was more at fault as it failed to avoid the sailboat which had the right of way. The yacht was awarded 50% of the damages incurred by it's loss because of the right of way violation but not 100% because of its failure to maintain a watch which might of avoided the accident entirely.

As a single hander, the red over green sailboat lights would help in determining fault should I get run down. The single hander would not get a 100% award of the damages, however, as they weren't maintaining a watch. Don't know whether the court might assess lesser responsibility for running NUC red over red lights but it would at least better inform other boats of the reality of the situation.

The only time I've come close to being run down and it was damn close, we were maintaining a watch heading south well off shore out of Channel Islands, CA. The ship obviously wasn't keeping a lookout as it could have avoided us easily with only a few degree change in it's course. Of course, you could probably say I wouldn't have known about all the other close calls cause I was asleep. Still vote for the NUC lights simply because it is the least confusing to another vessel.
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Old 24-08-2011, 13:17   #92
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Re: Red over Red - Not Under Command (NUC) Lights

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Originally Posted by roverhi View Post

As a single hander, the red over green sailboat lights would help in determining fault should I get run down. The single hander would not get a 100% award of the damages, however, as they weren't maintaining a watch. Don't know whether the court might assess lesser responsibility for running NUC red over red lights but it would at least better inform other boats of the reality of the situation.

The only time I've come close to being run down and it was damn close, we were maintaining a watch heading south well off shore out of Channel Islands, CA. The ship obviously wasn't keeping a lookout as it could have avoided us easily with only a few degree change in it's course. Of course, you could probably say I wouldn't have known about all the other close calls cause I was asleep. Still vote for the NUC lights simply because it is the least confusing to another vessel.
If they do not see your red over green, they would also not see your red over red.
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Old 24-08-2011, 14:29   #93
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Re: Red over Red - Not Under Command (NUC) Lights

Man is taking a driving test.
Comes to a green light and stops.
Examiner asks him why he stopped.
Man says he learned to drive with a friend, who told him green is stop, red is go.
Examiner corrects him, and they drive on.
Man stops at next green light.
Examiner asks him why he again stopped.
Man says he knows his friend is driving in town today.
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Old 24-08-2011, 14:46   #94
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Re: Red over Red - Not Under Command (NUC) Lights

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Originally Posted by Blue Stocking View Post
Man is taking a driving test.
Comes to a green light and stops.
Examiner asks him why he stopped.
Man says he learned to drive with a friend, who told him green is stop, red is go.
Examiner corrects him, and they drive on.
Man stops at next green light.
Examiner asks him why he again stopped.
Man says he knows his friend is driving in town today.
Man starts to cross street...
Other man pulls him back and says wait for correct walk signal.
Man waits...then goes when walk signal comes on.
Man gets run over by semi in crosswalk.

So what's your point?
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Old 24-08-2011, 14:57   #95
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Re: Red over Red - Not Under Command (NUC) Lights

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Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
Man starts to cross street...
Other man pulls him back and says wait for correct walk signal.
Man waits...then goes when walk signal comes on.
Man gets run over by semi in crosswalk.

So what's your point?

You just proved it.
If any two of us interpret lights differently for a given event, the odds are the smaller will suffer the greatest.

One of the more interesting recent threads BTW
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Old 24-08-2011, 15:05   #96
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Re: Red over Red - Not Under Command (NUC) Lights

This debate has become meaningless. The fact is that in general sailboat are stand-on vessels, so I fail to see what a NUC light would achive, You can legally show navigation lights and a Red over green, which in effect conveys the same info. I actually think with modern LED lights, any yahct over 30 feet should have these. Ive seen a few and they are very visible compared to the "tri-colour nonsense".


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Old 24-08-2011, 15:31   #97
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pirate Re: Red over Red - Not Under Command (NUC) Lights

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Originally Posted by roverhi View Post
As a single hander with a few miles under the keel, think it would be nice to be able to display some sort of signal that I'm not on watch. Not under command is about the only one that gives some indication of what I want to convey. It's not that I want right of way over every Tom, Dick and Harry but that the boat is doing it's own thing without me. Other wise, more as a courtesy so any affected vessels know early that they might need to make a minor course correction to avoid me. That's something that even a very big ship can do easily if given enough heads up.

If you've never made an offshore passage of more than a few days, you don't know what it's like to single hand. There is no way you'll be able to be on watch 24/7 and you'll be lucky to make it 16/7.

I'm sure the powers that be aren't losing sleep over not having a single handed light display. It's something that may not have entered their mind and probably something that they wouldn't consider in any case. I'm sure they don't want to encourage us 'crazy' single handers, and certainly don't want every boat out there flashing the signal when they'd rather sleep through a watch on a multi crew vessel.
I agree... us singlehanders are crazy....
But it would be nice if we did have a signal to fly or light... not saying we do it in the middle of shipping lanes etc but recognition would be nice...
But... until that happens I'll keep on doing what I have for years... sleep when I want... in comfort whenever possible...
Buldi regulators... if rules were'nt made to be broken.... why bludi make em....
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Old 24-08-2011, 15:38   #98
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Re: Red over Red - Not Under Command (NUC) Lights

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
This debate has become meaningless. The fact is that in general sailboat are stand-on vessels, so I fail to see what a NUC light would achive, You can legally show navigation lights and a Red over green, which in effect conveys the same info. I actually think with modern LED lights, any yahct over 30 feet should have these. Ive seen a few and they are very visible compared to the "tri-colour nonsense".


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Old 24-08-2011, 15:39   #99
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Re: Red over Red - Not Under Command (NUC) Lights

While this has been interesting (I guess), in general at night I avoid all lights regardless! And I never agrue with anything bigger than me.
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Old 24-08-2011, 15:41   #100
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Re: Red over Red - Not Under Command (NUC) Lights

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Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
I agree... us singlehanders are crazy....
But it would be nice if we did have a signal to fly or light... not saying we do it in the middle of shipping lanes etc but recognition would be nice...
But... until that happens I'll keep on doing what I have for years... sleep when I want... in comfort whenever possible...
Buldi regulators... if rules were'nt made to be broken.... why bludi make em....

Love your choice of font for this message Comic Sans MS.

For a signal; how about this red over red

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Old 24-08-2011, 15:49   #101
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pirate Re: Red over Red - Not Under Command (NUC) Lights

I always write in Comic Sans....
I'd hate folks to ever think I was serious about anything...
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Old 24-08-2011, 16:38   #102
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Re: Red over Red - Not Under Command (NUC) Lights

What are you guys talking about? You want a signal that says: " I am violating a basic rule, I am not maintaining a wtach"? Maybe you should have one that says I am always the stand on boat and no matter who you are you are the give way boat?
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Old 24-08-2011, 19:18   #103
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Re: Red over Red - Not Under Command (NUC) Lights

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What are you guys talking about? You want a signal that says: " I am violating a basic rule, I am not maintaining a wtach"? Maybe you should have one that says I am always the stand on boat and no matter who you are you are the give way boat?
Exactly! It nonsense to put NUC lights on unless you are NUC!! Being asleep on watch is not an "exceptional circumstance"

If you really dont want to agree to the rules Just change flag state to somalia and then you can rob the large ships which are trying to avoid you at night.

Or as ive said before invest in AIS.
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Old 24-08-2011, 19:24   #104
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Re: Red over Red - Not Under Command (NUC) Lights

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Originally Posted by Gracies View Post
Exactly! It nonsense to put NUC lights on unless you are NUC!! Being asleep on watch is not an "exceptional circumstance"

If you really dont want to agree to the rules Just change flag state to somalia and then you can rob the large ships which are trying to avoid you at night.

Or as ive said before invest in AIS.
Yes it is!
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Old 24-08-2011, 19:37   #105
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Re: Red over Red - Not Under Command (NUC) Lights

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Yes it is!
What part of Colregs do you not understand?

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The term "vessel not under command" means a vessel which through some exceptional circumstance is unable to maneuver as required by these Rules and is therefore unable to keep out of the way of another vessel.
Read sections 6-104 to 6-111 for the case law.

Marsden on collisions at sea - Google Books
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