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Old 23-08-2011, 06:50   #31
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Re: Red over Red - Not Under Command (NUC) Lights

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Originally Posted by TheManWhoSpoke View Post
well I'm sure that other have said this before, but every navigation course book I have read refers to exceptional circumstance as things that are beyond the control of the skipper. Such as Engine failure, steerage failure, becalmed sailing vessel - or otherwise unable to propel or manouver itself.

The definition of vessel does not include the skipper, because the skipper is giving command, he is not subject to command. Hence, it is always expected that a skipper will be in the position to give command to his vessel. A vessel is said to be NUC when it is rendered incapable of answering the command of the skipper - hence the skipper is out of control, due to the fault of the vessel itself.

Perhaps this is semantics. If you collide, You're probably boned anyway... As for the flashing light idea, a yellow light flashing twice per second seems to be the international signal for "stay the f**k away from me". Perhaps you could try that.
As I've said...that may be the way it is interpreted by many...but NOT what it actually says...maritime law may have case law to support that but just as easily case law could say it's perfectly within the interpretation.
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Old 23-08-2011, 06:57   #32
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Re: Red over Red - Not Under Command (NUC) Lights

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Sorry for the slight thread drift, but this keeps pops up from time to time and I never follow it. When I see a flashing / strobe light, I always assume it's a net, because that's how they are usually marked in this part of the world.

Why would a strobe be interpreted as a distress signal?
Because lifeboats and personal flotation devices are equipped with strobe lights. A watchkeeper on a large ship will likely interpret your strobe as a possible liferaft adrift - and feel obligated to alter course and investigate.
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Old 23-08-2011, 07:23   #33
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Re: Red over Red - Not Under Command (NUC) Lights

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Originally Posted by TheManWhoSpoke View Post
Because lifeboats and personal flotation devices are equipped with strobe lights. A watchkeeper on a large ship will likely interpret your strobe as a possible liferaft adrift - and feel obligated to alter course and investigate.
Reality is: They don't. They don't come anywhere near a strobe.
I run a strobe when solo sailing and no ship has deviated an inch towards me. They think its a flashing light sitting on a rock. Albeit a slow moving rock.

As to the rest of the thread: Don't put a problem where there isn't one. If you are in an emergency stop stuffing around with stupid fool lights from some archaic sailing manual and get out the searchlight and shine it in the faces of craft. Then they will know something is wrong.

Yachts have enough crap on them without adding extra ridiculous lights.
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Old 23-08-2011, 07:47   #34
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Re: Red over Red - Not Under Command (NUC) Lights

MarkJ, Lights identifying your situation are not rediculous...
But we have discussed the various lights here and the only one that was not jumped on was the all around Red over Green, which ID's a sailing machine.
This could be the lights that should be shown that you are a sail boat... Thus giving you a leg to stand on in a court of law if you survived the collision with a ship. Any other lights won't do this.

Red over Green: Sailing machine. 99% of the sail boats out there have not mounted them on their masts yet. So this lighting setup should at least ID you as a sail boat and have some standing as the stand on vessel.... Of course arguing this with a 80,000 ton ship with a sleepy mate might be another story. But at least Red/Green does give you a bit of a chance out there
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Old 23-08-2011, 08:35   #35
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Re: Red over Red - Not Under Command (NUC) Lights

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MarkJ, Lights identifying your situation are not rediculous...
Don't misinterpret my words.
I said having those fool lights was REDICULOUS. I did not say identifying a boats situation is rediculous.

Go reread my post


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Old 23-08-2011, 13:27   #36
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Re: Red over Red - Not Under Command (NUC) Lights

Lights are important - going NUC when needed is important - Keeping a lookout is important.

You are sleepy, they are sleepy. You don't see them , they don't see you. You hit them, they hit you. You are dead, they may not have even noted the collision. The results are the same.
You cannot ignore the requirement to keep watch - and to take any action to avoid collision if they do not regardless of the lights you use. Having red over green at least shows that they were required to stay our of your way. May your children get a good settlement.

My point if any is that sleepy sailors are taking a (often necessary) risk and no set of lights will change that. Any change of rules to have a sleepy sailor light display (SSLD) will have no effect on sleepy bridge crews as they run you down. Thus no rule change is needed or desired. SV lights appears to be your best bet....

Regards, Ethan
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Old 23-08-2011, 13:33   #37
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Re: Red over Red - Not Under Command (NUC) Lights

I have been technically NUC once; in the summer of 2000 we were adrift in fog at the entrance to Juan de Fuca for 1.5 days. A small piece of fishing net had wrapped itself around our prop shaft and taken out our transmission about 10 days earlier while we were attempting to power through the Pacific high.

As we had no proper light or shapes for being NUC, we remained in contact with Tofino traffic who were tracking us on radar, and warning incoming and outgoing traffic of our situation.
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Old 23-08-2011, 14:17   #38
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Re: Red over Red - Not Under Command (NUC) Lights

I wonder why nobody touched on an anchor light? True that an anchor light employed in 1000 fathoms is likely to be viewed as strange, but I should think the message would be clear.
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Old 23-08-2011, 14:19   #39
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Re: Red over Red - Not Under Command (NUC) Lights

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I wonder why nobody touched on an anchor light? True that an anchor light employed in 1000 fathoms is likely to be viewed as strange, but I should think the message would be clear.
If I saw an anchor light mid-ocean I'd probably assume I was seeing a stern light. Or maybe a steaming light.

Either way, it's probably not the message you want to send.
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Old 23-08-2011, 15:05   #40
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Re: Red over Red - Not Under Command (NUC) Lights

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If I saw an anchor light mid-ocean I'd probably assume I was seeing a stern light. Or maybe a steaming light.

Either way, it's probably not the message you want to send.
Exactly.

There is no "night light" for sleeping sailors.
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Old 23-08-2011, 15:26   #41
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Re: Red over Red - Not Under Command (NUC) Lights

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Exactly.

There is no "night light" for sleeping sailors.
Are you advocating no single handing or doing nothing to suggest a "status change" if the crew does nap???
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Old 23-08-2011, 15:52   #42
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Re: Red over Red - Not Under Command (NUC) Lights

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Are you advocating no single handing or doing nothing to suggest a "status change" if the crew does nap???
I'm not advocating any position whatsoever. Rather, I'm informing you that use of NUC lights for snoozing is not a proper use of that signal.

While I enjoy singlehanding, I don't make extended passages alone. Were I forced to do so, I would take a page from many of the Singlehanded Transpac sailors and do the bulk of my sleeping during daylight hours.
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Old 23-08-2011, 15:58   #43
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Re: Red over Red - Not Under Command (NUC) Lights

There is no "nap" light configuration or dayshape. It is not NUC, not RAM, not anything except "failure to maintain a proper watch". Just because you choose to violate one of the most basic regs does not make it right to use an incorrect light signal. If you choose to do so, at least acknowledge that that is what you are doing, don't try to rationalize it because it doesn't conveniently fall into another legit classification. If I were going to solo I would mount red over green lights and hope for the best, but I would not display red over red or any other combination unless the situation qualified under the rules. Any time you start changing the rules to suit yourself someone else (that knows the rules) is going to misinterpret what you doing and could not only put you in danger but the other vessel as well.
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Old 23-08-2011, 16:07   #44
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Re: Red over Red - Not Under Command (NUC) Lights

I have yet to see where anyone has conclusively proven NUC lights are the wrong signal...not a common use for it...but then napping single handers are not addressed whatsoever....so MY interpretation of the rules...and my quals are as good as anyone posting so far....is that while not the best solution...it might be suitable because nothing else is if you solo.

Plus really what is the down side?
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Old 23-08-2011, 16:08   #45
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Re: Red over Red - Not Under Command (NUC) Lights

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.............. Yachts have enough crap on them without adding extra ridiculous lights.

I like this. Stupid lights that no one understands, now that is going to be a big help isn't it?
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