Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 01-09-2011, 10:02   #196
CF Adviser
 
Bash's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: sausalito
Boat: 14 meter sloop
Posts: 7,260
Re: Red over Red - Not Under Command (NUC) Lights

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gracies View Post
Therfore are you saying if you were at sea, more than 100 miles offshore, and you had a mayday you would broadcast on 13??
How in the world did you come to that conclusion? Of course I monitor 16, never said that I didn't. And I certainly didn't say a thing about broadcasting a mayday.

Read more carefully, please. You might learn something.

As of February 1, 2005, ships over 300 tons are no longer required to monitor channel 16 in international waters. They are required to monitor channel 70 for DSCSS signals.

Next time you can't get a ship to answer a hail on 16, switch to 13, which is a one-watt frequency. That's the channel that ships tend to use to talk to each other.
__________________

__________________
cruising is entirely about showing up--in boat shoes.
Bash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2011, 11:38   #197
Moderator
 
nigel1's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Manchester, UK
Boat: Beneteau 473
Posts: 5,181
Re: Red over Red - Not Under Command (NUC) Lights

Seems like a bit of threrad drift.
Anyway, sitting between anchors, I dragged out the ITU's bestseller Manual for the use by the maritime mobile and maritime moble satellite services


31.17 § 8 1) Ship stations, where so equipped, shall, while at sea, maintain an automatic
digital selective calling watch on the appropriate distress and safety calling frequencies in the
frequency bands in which they are operating. Ship stations, where so equipped, shall also maintain
watch on the appropriate frequencies for the automatic reception of transmissions of meteorological
and navigational warnings and other urgent information to ships.
31.18 2) Ship stations complying with the provisions of this Chapter should, where
practicable, maintain a watch on the frequency 156.800 MHz (VHF channel 16).


Just about all vessels should and will be listening on Ch 16, but as always, there will the odd ones who are not.
__________________

__________________
Nigel
Beneteau 473
Manchester, UK
nigel1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2011, 11:50   #198
cat herder, extreme blacksheep
 
zeehag's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: furycame alley , tropics, mexico for now
Boat: 1976 FORMOSA yankee clipper 41
Posts: 17,767
Images: 56
Send a message via Yahoo to zeehag Send a message via Skype™ to zeehag
Re: Red over Red - Not Under Command (NUC) Lights

red over red, captain is DEAD

if you plan on dying, color is good,if you are merely snoozing, make sure you are NOT in a busy area and doze fast.
zeehag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2011, 11:58   #199
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: UK/Portugal
Posts: 20,198
Images: 2
Send a message via Skype™ to boatman61
pirate Re: Red over Red - Not Under Command (NUC) Lights

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
This is a very uninformed piece. I have never seen compulsory carriage AIS vessels turn their AIS off.

Other yachts are not particulary the danger as in general they are slow moving and unlikely to do much damage. A tanker doing 20 knots on the other hand. ...

Colregs are enforced by flag states on the high seas and by states in their territorial waters, they have the force of law and are not " guidelines" ( as per capt. Sparrow)

Blame is most certainly not apportioned 50/50 , a few readings of various admiralty judgements will confirm that.

Dave
Un-informed....??
nope its not information that led to this statement....
it was actual experience... thats all I put on here... things I've actually experienced...
last month on a boat called Windsong coming across the Biscay...
The owner is a CF member...
maybe when he returns from his cruise of the Algarve in a coupla weeks he may see this and confirm...
Did not bother me as I eyeball the horizon not a 6inch screen... did his head in though and got him looking outa the window more....
__________________


Born To Be Wild
boatman61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2011, 14:58   #200
Senior Cruiser
 
jackdale's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 5,040
Images: 1
Re: Red over Red - Not Under Command (NUC) Lights

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post

Blame is most certainly not apportioned 50/50 , a few readings of various admiralty judgements will confirm that.

Dave
One case at least

Summary
Quote:
This case arose out of a collision in the St. Lawrence Seaway between a freighter and a sail boat. Two of the four crew of the sailboat died as a result of the collision. The Pilot of the freighter was charged with failing to comply with the Collision Regulations. The Court extensively reviewed the evidence and ultimately dismissed the charges against the Pilot holding that he exercised the degree of diligence expected of a seaman.
Findings

Quote:
[430] All of the evidence leads the Court to conclude that the Canada Senator was a stand-on vessel for which a collision situation arose and that it was required to act according to the development of this situation.

[431] An analysis of the facts in evidence shows that the pilot Jacques Cloutier acted in accordance with this situation by applying Rules 17 and 2(b) of the Collision Regulations, which justified in particular his “hard-a-port” order.

[432] The sailboat Mondisy failed to follow any rules of navigation.

[433] Because of the behaviour of the sailboat and the specific geographic characteristics of the collision site, the Court considers that there is a reasonable doubt as to whether the Canada Senator was subject to Rule 13 and as whether it is relevant to apply the alternatives suggested by the expert witness for the prosecution.

[434] In addition, the evidence heard in no way demonstrates that the freighter piloted by the defendant was proceeding at unsafe speeds.

[435] Furthermore, the defence’s evidence revealed a risk of collision, and the Court finds this evidence to be credible and to demonstrate on a balance of probabilities that the defendant diligently and reasonably used the means available to appraise and avoid the collision.

[436] In short, the defendant exercised the due diligence that is to be expected of a good seaman.

[437] In view of the foregoing, the information is dismissed and the defendant Jacques Cloutier is acquitted of the three offences with which he was charged.
CanLII - 2007 QCCQ 13533 (CanLII)
__________________
ISPA Yachtmaster Ocean Instructor Evaluator
Sail Canada Advanced Cruising Instructor
IYT Yachtmaster Coastal Instructor
ASA 201, 203,204, 205, 206, 214
As I sail, I praise God, and care not. (Luke Foxe)
jackdale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2011, 15:11   #201
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: UK/Portugal
Posts: 20,198
Images: 2
Send a message via Skype™ to boatman61
pirate Re: Red over Red - Not Under Command (NUC) Lights

My only collision at sea... what happens when a french motorsailing boat doing 5-6knots T-Bones an Oceanis 321 ghosting in light airs...
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	mewa damage 1.gif
Views:	84
Size:	103.0 KB
ID:	31050   Click image for larger version

Name:	Mewa damage 2.gif
Views:	92
Size:	109.5 KB
ID:	31051  

Click image for larger version

Name:	Mewa damage 3.gif
Views:	85
Size:	112.0 KB
ID:	31052  
__________________


Born To Be Wild
boatman61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2011, 15:15   #202
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,649
Images: 3
Re: Red over Red - Not Under Command (NUC) Lights

Quote:
As of February 1, 2005, ships over 300 tons are no longer required to monitor channel 16 in international waters. They are required to monitor channel 70 for DSCSS signals
No that is not the case that IMO decision was suspended and as of today was not implemented .

In additon to a requirement to maintain a listening watch on CH16 , in US waters, for commercial vessels, a listening watch on CH 13 is also required, which can only be implemented using two radios or one with dual receivers and not sequential scanning ( in some case ch67)

Dave
__________________
Check out my new blog on smart boat technology, networking and gadgets for the connected sailor! - http://smartboats.tumblr.com
goboatingnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2011, 16:19   #203
Moderator
 
Boracay's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Pelican Bay, Great Sandy National Park
Boat: Steel Roberts Offshore 44
Posts: 5,175
Images: 18
Visibility and eye damage...

My comment on visibility relates to a table of visibility v's Luminous Intensity on the Bebi wesite. Scroll down to "COLREGS applied to LED lights".

I may have misinterpreted the table. My interpretation, given a navigation light with a luminous intensity of 5, and using other information from that page, is that it may be practically impossible to get a navigation light that is legally visible over more than 3 nm.

I looked up strobes to see if the more powerful ones could do better and came across a warning of possible eye damage.

There is a note under the table that "The maximum luminous intensity of navigation lights should be limited to avoid undue glare. "
__________________
Rust never sleeps
Boracay Blog.
Boracay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2011, 13:41   #204
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Seattle
Boat: Work: Ships/Tugs Play: Grand Banks 36
Posts: 76
Re: Red over Red - Not Under Command (NUC) Lights

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
No that is not the case that IMO decision was suspended and as of today was not implemented .

In additon to a requirement to maintain a listening watch on CH16 , in US waters, for commercial vessels, a listening watch on CH 13 is also required, which can only be implemented using two radios or one with dual receivers and not sequential scanning ( in some case ch67)

Dave
There are exceptions to this, such as in a VTS area where participating vessels can drop 16.

Also, the bridge-to-bridge radio telephone act requires all power-driven vessels (not just commercial ones) over 20 meters in length to keep a watch on ch 13.
__________________
Watermann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2011, 14:41   #205
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: May 2011
Location: PDX
Boat: Gulfstar 50
Posts: 895
Re: Red over Red - Not Under Command (NUC) Lights

Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
yours is big and mine is just as big...your study of the rules lead to one cdonclusion...mine another...neither is right and neither is wrong until it's heard in court...BECAUSE ONE MORE TIME FOR THE CHEAP SEATS...IT'S NEITHER SPELLED OUT AS PROHIBITED AND EXCEPTIONAL CIRCUMSTANCES AREN'T INDIVIDUALLY SPELLED OUT....so my experience with the law is that you, me, and the LEOs don't have final say...only the courts...

And when all said and done...if you were sleeping below...you are far more in non-compliance with the rules than just showing the wrong lights for the right reasons.
An exhausted single handed skipper sleeping is not an exceptional case. They do it EVERY DAY....
__________________
evm1024 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2011, 14:48   #206
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Palma Mallorca
Boat: Fisksatra Havsfidra
Posts: 72
Re: Red over Red - Not Under Command (NUC) Lights

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bash View Post
How in the world did you come to that conclusion? Of course I monitor 16, never said that I didn't. And I certainly didn't say a thing about broadcasting a mayday.

Read more carefully, please. You might learn something.

As of February 1, 2005, ships over 300 tons are no longer required to monitor channel 16 in international waters. They are required to monitor channel 70 for DSCSS signals.

Next time you can't get a ship to answer a hail on 16, switch to 13, which is a one-watt frequency. That's the channel that ships tend to use to talk to each other.
I do read carefully,

I am a commercial master, who runs a commercial vessel, all be it a commercial yacht.

The yacht is over 300 GT. Therefore i have full GMDSS compliance, with all operators holding the AMERC GOC. We do extensive training to stay in flag state compliance as we are a commercial vessel over 24m registered in London. Therefore we are under the MCA LY2 coding. I can catergorically say that CH 16 is the Emergency and Hailing channel. Therefore if in International waters outside of a VTS another commercial vessel does not answer me on 16 i assume that they are not monitoring 13 either.

The original point i made was that the vessel in question was NUC but was not showing her port/star nav lights or her steaming lights. Therefore her aspect was initially unclear making the appropriate manouvere to avoid collision difficult to determine. That is why i attempted through VHF 16 to hail her to gather information on her heading and speed. I suppose i could have also attempted to contact her through DSC but if within 6nm of a VLCC you recieve no answer via VHF on 16 i assumed that the radio room was empty. Therefore action was taken to avoid the collision.

If NUC i strongly believe that it is imperative to notify other seafarers of your situation, heading and speed through the water. Therefore just because you are NUC this (unless alone or short handed fixing a exceptional circumstance) you must maintain visual and radio watch.
__________________

__________________
www.alonearoundtheworld.com
Gracies is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Red and Green All-Around Lights jrd22 Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 123 23-08-2011 09:39
Alpenglow LED Reading Lights RainDog Product or Service Reviews & Evaluations 1 19-08-2011 06:36
Phillipine Red 'Meranti" Plywood - Trustworthy? Gone2long Construction, Maintenance & Refit 10 05-07-2011 12:34



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 13:49.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.