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Old 31-08-2011, 02:53   #181
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Re: Red over Red - Not Under Command (NUC) Lights

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Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
It may vary from region. I monitor 16 and the appropriate VTS channel. I will use 13 if necessary.

Mayday would be 16. or DSC.
Ch 13 is more of a USA thing, in Europe, Channel 13 is not monitored.
Ch 13 is an intership safety channel. For example, if a vessel needed to broadcast a Navigation Warning, the correct procedure would be to send an all ships DSC call, designating Ch 13 as the channel to listen on for the voice broadcast.
Well, thats my understanding of how it works around here.
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Old 31-08-2011, 18:24   #182
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Re: Red over Red - Not Under Command (NUC) Lights

Nigel is correct, local variations may occur but really since this is an international forum the obvious must be stated - every boat has an 'obligation' to monitor 16 to listen in for distress calls and safety (securite') messages. The primary open calling station is also 16 (if no distress or safety traffic in progress and outside the 'silent' periods) and then change to the agreed local channel.
Keeping it simple is important, that's why they designed it that way, so in times of stress the skipper doesn't have to remember 15 different channels and in times of routine comms, we all know where we stand.
When in your local area, I guess it's great to have the dual or triple function on your VHF....
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Old 31-08-2011, 18:44   #183
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Re: Red over Red - Not Under Command (NUC) Lights

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Originally Posted by Surfer Girl View Post
Nigel is correct, local variations may occur but really since this is an international forum the obvious must be stated - every boat has an 'obligation' to monitor 16 to listen in for distress calls and safety (securite') messages. The primary open calling station is also 16 (if no distress or safety traffic in progress and outside the 'silent' periods) and then change to the agreed local channel.
Keeping it simple is important, that's why they designed it that way, so in times of stress the skipper doesn't have to remember 15 different channels and in times of routine comms, we all know where we stand.
When in your local area, I guess it's great to have the dual or triple function on your VHF....
Precisely my point.!!

So to say one would NEVER contact commercial shipping on 16, pretty scary attitude. My previous post stating that the VLCC did not respond to persistant calls on 16 just shows that even when doing things right by the book it does not mean that the other party will. I suppose thats the whole point of the colregs anyway, to keep you from being liable.
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Old 01-09-2011, 02:42   #184
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Re: Red over Red - Not Under Command (NUC) Lights

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Being the standon vessel is nice,but the rule is to get the Heck out of the way!Unless we chat on the radio probably best to change course.
There is the possibility of both vessels making course corrections at the same time, creating a potential incident... Also note, that when sailing vessels are showing the requisite lights, they will only see one of your navigation lights. They may not recognize your course change, unless you show them a different sector. (This alone is good reason for showing Red-Green on the mast).
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Old 01-09-2011, 04:48   #185
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2 Nautical Miles...

I did some checking and it looks like most navigation lights are rated at 2 nm visibility. Might get 3 nm with a very bright light on a good night. Brighter than that becomes a health issue - eye damage. Think of how far away a traffic light is visible.

So realistically boats at night in the middle of the ocean are pretty well invisible. If they're not on radar or AIS they're not there.

So I'm planning on saving on the red over red and spending it on a good radar reflector, a radar with proximity alarm and/or an AIS transponder.

With 2nm mile visibility a boat traveling at 20 knots has about 6 minutes to avoid me, less if they're making coffee, answering a call of nature or chatting to their girlfriend.

They'd pick up my reflector on their radar long before that if I'm lucky, I might get half an hour from the AIS transponder (again if I'm lucky) and the radar alarm may give up to 20 minutes (lucky?), just about enough time to wake up, assess the situation and to take evasive action.

Not having sailed at night with an autopilot/windvane these are just quick calculations. I'm assuming the most practical solution is to reduce sail and to keep on going. Anyone who has done this care to comment?
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Old 01-09-2011, 04:52   #186
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Re: 2 Nautical Miles...

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Originally Posted by Boracay View Post
I did some checking and it looks like most navigation lights are rated at 2 nm visibility. Might get 3 nm with a very bright light on a good night. Brighter than that becomes a health issue - eye damage.

So realistically boats at night in the middle of the ocean are pretty well invisible. If they're not on radar or AIS they're not there.

So I'm planning on saving on the red over red and spending it on a good radar reflector, a radar with proximity alarm and/or an AIS transponder.

With 2nm mile visibility a boat traveling at 20 knots has about 6 minutes to avoid me, less if they're making coffee, answering a call of nature or chatting to their girlfriend.


They'd pick up my reflector on their radar long before that if I'm lucky, I might get half an hour from the AIS transponder (again if I'm lucky)
and the radar alarm may give up to 20 minutes (lucky?), just about enough time to wake up, assess the situation and to take evasive action.
Good plan but I don't see where brighter lights will cause eye damage...after all they are shining away from the boat.
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Old 01-09-2011, 05:06   #187
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Re: 2 Nautical Miles...

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Originally Posted by Boracay View Post
I did some checking and it looks like most navigation lights are rated at 2 nm visibility. Might get 3 nm with a very bright light on a good night. Brighter than that becomes a health issue - eye damage. Think of how far away a traffic light is visible.
These are absolute minimum distances. Most large ships, I can see the nav lights on the horizon, and with smaller vessels, can usually see at 10 miles, its not all doom and gloom.
With a properly set up radar, and someone who knows how to use it, and you have a radar reflector, properly mounted, count on 10 to 15 miles detection range.
Next time your out, and its not too busy with traffic, call up a commercial vessel and ask them at what distance they detected you.
Hopefully they will have, but not all watch keepers are properly trained, and some are working on minimum wages, so it can be a bit pot luck
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Old 01-09-2011, 05:23   #188
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pirate Re: Red over Red - Not Under Command (NUC) Lights

ROTFLMBO..... some of you guys shouting about AIS need to get out offshore away from the busy lanes.... 80% of commercial boats don't have it on.... or just randomly switch it on and off...
Last delivery had all the toys and the owner was adamant that this would take care of watch-keeping difficulties and give plenty off warning... to his horror it did not...
MK1 eyeball is still the most reliable....
as to sleeping while single-handing... your biggest danger is not ships but your fellow yachtsman...
commercial vessels can do without the hassle and stand off...
Just time your breaks with common sense and you'll be just fine... as to COLREGS my understanding is they are recommendations for international co-operation and are enforced in zones of traffic not in the open ocean.
In any collision the blame is apportioned 50/50.... unless it can be proved it was a deliberate ramming..
Just because a Master Mariner states his opinion does not make something written in stone... as many Master Mariners have found out...
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Old 01-09-2011, 05:38   #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boatman61
ROTFLMBO..... some of you guys shouting about AIS need to get out offshore away from the busy lanes.... 80% of commercial boats don't have it on.... or just randomly switch it on and off...
Last delivery had all the toys and the owner was adamant that this would take care of watch-keeping difficulties and give plenty off warning... to his horror it did not...
MK1 eyeball is still the most reliable....
as to sleeping while single-handing... your biggest danger is not ships but your fellow yachtsman...
commercial vessels can do without the hassle and stand off...
Just time your breaks with common sense and you'll be just fine... as to COLREGS my understanding is they are recommendations for international co-operation and are enforced in zones of traffic not in the open ocean.
In any collision the blame is apportioned 50/50.... unless it can be proved it was a deliberate ramming..
Just because a Master Mariner states his opinion does not make something written in stone... as many Master Mariners have found out...
This is a very uninformed piece. I have never seen compulsory carriage AIS vessels turn their AIS off.

Other yachts are not particulary the danger as in general they are slow moving and unlikely to do much damage. A tanker doing 20 knots on the other hand. ...

Colregs are enforced by flag states on the high seas and by states in their territorial waters, they have the force of law and are not " guidelines" ( as per capt. Sparrow)

Blame is most certainly not apportioned 50/50 , a few readings of various admiralty judgements will confirm that.

Dave
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Old 01-09-2011, 06:04   #190
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Re: Red over Red - Not Under Command (NUC) Lights

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... I have never seen compulsory carriage AIS vessels turn their AIS off...
Unless perhaps there is threat of piracy. The master can turn the AIS off if they feel it is detrimental to the safety of the vessel.
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...Colregs are enforced by flag states on the high seas...
Not sure how that one works, wouldn't you need to be under the same flag as the law enforcement or military agency in question? I don't see how the US coast guard can board an Australian, Portugese or French flag vessel on the high seas.
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Old 01-09-2011, 06:20   #191
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Unless perhaps there is threat of piracy. The master can turn the AIS off if they feel it is detrimental to the safety of the vessel.
There is no provision under the SOLAS V rules that permit a compulsory fit vessel to turn off it's AIS , that does not mean in life or death situations it wouldn't happen

Quote:
Not sure how that one works, wouldn't you need to be under the same flag as the law enforcement or military agency in question? I don't see how the US coast guard can board an Australian, Portugese or French flag vessel on the high seas.
the application of the Colregs is carried out by the flag state that is a signatory to the IMO resolution. Hence US ships in international waters are subject to the US implementation of the COLREGs , which has the force of US law upon that US ship.

The colregs are not " guidelines"

It's got nothing to do with being boarded. It means that a US vessel on the high seas subjected to a claim under the COLREGs would be adjudicated in a US court.

International waters does not mean laws do not exist or are not applied.

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Old 01-09-2011, 09:21   #192
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Re: Red over Red - Not Under Command (NUC) Lights

Have turned off the AIS transmitter when towing a rig south bound from the Persian Gulf, for obvious reasons. The receiver was still on, but not a lot to receive anyway as most vessels in the area had the same idea.
At all other times, its on 24/7
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Old 01-09-2011, 09:38   #193
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Re: Red over Red - Not Under Command (NUC) Lights

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Have turned off the AIS transmitter when towing a rig south bound from the Persian Gulf, for obvious reasons. The receiver was still on, but not a lot to receive anyway as most vessels in the area had the same idea.
At all other times, its on 24/7
Look at the entrance to the Gulf of Aden - 0 visible for me right.

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Old 01-09-2011, 09:53   #194
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Re: Red over Red - Not Under Command (NUC) Lights

When I make a course change to avoid ships I overexaggerate the change initially to show a definite change of direction and show opposing nav. lights.My experience sailing the westcoast is probably very few vessels less than 300 T, transmit AIS.
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Old 01-09-2011, 10:01   #195
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Re: Red over Red - Not Under Command (NUC) Lights

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When I make a course change to avoid ships I overexaggerate the change initially to show a definite change of direction and show opposing nav. lights lights
That is the requirement under rule 16. We tell our students, "Do it big, do it early."
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