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Old 20-07-2014, 18:49   #1
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Rebel Heart Lawsuit

Both RH threads have been closed. I am posting this in the Red Tape forum because I think the implications of the lawsuit are pertinent to us as sailors.

The suit has been filed (apparently) and Sail magazine interviewed the lawyer.

Read carefully who is named and how they are getting at the rescue money.

Let's try to avoid making this an RH bashing thread.

REBEL HEART: Lawsuit Against Sat-Phone Provider | Sailfeed
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Old 20-07-2014, 19:01   #2
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Re: Rebel Heart Lawsuit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ex-Calif View Post
Both RH threads have been closed. I am posting this in the Red Tape forum because I think the implications of the lawsuit are pertinent to us as sailors.

The suit has been filed (apparently) and Sail magazine interviewed the lawyer.

Read carefully who is named and how they are getting at the rescue money.

Let's try to avoid making this an RH bashing thread.

REBEL HEART: Lawsuit Against Sat-Phone Provider | Sailfeed
Good on you to start this thread. I think there is allot of info that may be useful to cruisers.
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Old 20-07-2014, 19:37   #3
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Re: Rebel Heart Lawsuit

Mom said if you can't say anything nice......
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Old 20-07-2014, 20:03   #4
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Re: Rebel Heart Lawsuit

Let me get this straight, Eric, the one who signed the contract to get the service, is not suing because he signed the contract and agreed to its terms.
His wife, who did not sign, and who the provider did not agree to provide service to, is suing because she did not get service?

Can I sue them too? Well yes I can because there is no requirement that a lawsuit makes any sense in order to file one.
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Old 20-07-2014, 21:28   #5
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Re: Rebel Heart Lawsuit

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Originally Posted by Mark1977 View Post
Good on you to start this thread. I think there is allot of info that may be useful to cruisers.
What info could be useful? What can we as cruisers learn from the actions of Rebel Heart? I'll stop there as this subject disgusts me.
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Old 20-07-2014, 22:33   #6
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Re: Rebel Heart Lawsuit

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Originally Posted by nimblemotors View Post
Let me get this straight, Eric, the one who signed the contract to get the service, is not suing because he signed the contract and agreed to its terms.
His wife, who did not sign, and who the provider did not agree to provide service to, is suing because she did not get service?

Can I sue them too? Well yes I can because there is no requirement that a lawsuit makes any sense in order to file one.
He is also named as a "nominal defendant" because of communal property issues.

Is there any scenario that Eric is found personally and partially at fault and liable for his share of "damages" - I am sure he wouldn't open himself up to that and nominal defendant is some lawyer magic trick - LOL...


Quote:
Originally Posted by smj View Post
What info could be useful? What can we as cruisers learn from the actions of Rebel Heart? I'll stop there as this subject disgusts me.
I understand everyone's frustration with this case and it has been bashed to death. If you anyone can't take it please go to "Thread Tools" and click "Ignore Thread" you will never see it again...

What I have not seen in my 7 or so years here is a thread on a real live product liability suit as relates to boating.

I still think it will either get tossed or settled but who else gets opened up if there really is a judgment against whenever.com.

Storm sail maker, drogue chute maker. My boat got knocked down in a storm, "Who do I sue?"

GPS fails and I don't have paper charts. I hit a reef and sink the boat. Do I get to sue Garmin?

It is interesting that they are not naming Iridium. I suspect they view Whenever as an outfit that will settle and Iridium is an outfit that will kick their a$$es all around a court room.

And the whole idea that they are going to somehow attach the governments damages to this caes because at some future time Eric may have to pay it? But if Eric doesn't then we'll donate it?

Pretty creative way to get at the bigger number. Defend yourself against a fight that does not exist - i.e. government asking Eric for reimbursement.

Has anyone ever heard of a case of the government requesting repayment? Ever?

Oh - If anyone has access to the online court system in SD and can get a pdf copy or a link to the filing I would love to read it.
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Old 20-07-2014, 22:35   #7
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Re: Rebel Heart Lawsuit

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Good on you to start this thread. I think there is allot of info that may be useful to cruisers.
yea... I won't be using satallitephonestore.com for my satphone purchases.
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Old 20-07-2014, 23:53   #8
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Re: Rebel Heart Lawsuit

I'm uncomfortable here in this rolly anchorage... the tech is having trouble fixing my freezer... oh no, the meat might spoil and make me sick... only 225 gallons of fuel in the tank... not enough to get back to America... time to set off the EPIRB, scuttle the boat and sue the refrigeration company for a new boat, the rescue and emotional distress... they said it would keep my food frozen.

Oh... the horror.
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Old 21-07-2014, 00:18   #9
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Re: Rebel Heart Lawsuit

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I'm uncomfortable here in this rolly anchorage... the tech is having trouble fixing my freezer... oh no, the meat might spoil and make me sick... only 225 gallons of fuel in the tank... not enough to get back to America... time to set off the EPIRB, scuttle the boat and sue the refrigeration company for a new boat, the rescue and emotional distress... they said it would keep my food frozen.

Oh... the horror.
However, in a previous thread, SOMEWHERE on the forum. Boatie mentioned the uncomfortable motion at Soller. This invalidates all claims you might make, even if you didnt read the thread.

So there.......... puke on.
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Old 21-07-2014, 00:27   #10
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Re: Rebel Heart Lawsuit

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However, in a previous thread, SOMEWHERE on the forum. Boatie mentioned the uncomfortable motion at Soller. This invalidates all claims you might make, even if you didnt read the thread.

So there.......... puke on.
Well Mr Smartypants,

My wife Mrs Kenomac doesn't read or belong to the forum, so she was unaware of how uncomfortable I would be whilst anchored here. She in fact paid for the meat that will spoil and views setting off the EPIRB as the only option to hopefully... save our bacon.

Oh... the horror.
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Old 21-07-2014, 01:08   #11
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Re: Rebel Heart Lawsuit

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
Well Mr Smartypants,

My wife Mrs Kenomac doesn't read or belong to the forum, so she was unaware of how uncomfortable I would be whilst anchored here. She in fact paid for the meat that will spoil and views setting off the EPIRB as the only option to hopefully... save our bacon.

Oh... the horror.
Smartypants replied:

Well then........ that puts it in a different light....... I will of course be catching a flight to a land far away immediately so when she finds out.. and the EPIRB is fired up...... the horror will be all yours. Far be it for me to intervene between a husband and wife...
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Old 21-07-2014, 01:17   #12
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Re: Rebel Heart Lawsuit

I like reading about lawsuits myself as some good for many can arise from some lawsuits. Wasnt it all the lawsuits against cell-phones causing brain tumors and cancer that caused the surgeon general of England to publically warn users.What caused all cell phones to be able to call 911 free in many countries without a user-carrier contract irregardless of sim-card status? perhaps a lawsuit caused that change which was great as i now leave an old flip-phone and 12volt adaptor in my auto that can be used free if required. If a sat-phone worked free for 911 or 0 around here i would buy one for 299 from Boat US or whatever.Perhaps this lawsuit will cause most carriers to provide free 911 access and that is a good thing. These lawsuits remind me of a saying i heard years ago by a guy with a vanity license plate that read "sue4me" .His motto was that we make money the old-way because "we sue for it". Contract law.I got freezer contents insurance as well but "loss of use" coverage on phones i dont think is available yet.This could get settled fast and privately like all those cell-phone and suntan-bed lawsuits that caused cancer.Depends on the wording of the contract i suppose.
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Old 21-07-2014, 01:49   #13
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Re: Rebel Heart Lawsuit

However:
Getting back to the thread.

It would be fair to say that most of the thinking and experienced sailors on C.F. have evaluated carefully all the information pertaining to the preparation for the R.H. trip and the outcome.

I am not surprised at the actions being taken through the legal system now on behalf of the crew.

There always are two options available to a person who undergoes a traumatic event, one is to accept completely the part of the problem where we were at fault,and the other is to deny it and continue to prove none of it was to do with us, and apportion blame in pieces elsewhere.

That is the choice for each of us, and no one can take it away.

There are a core of really experienced people on C.F. whom, in my experience, are fairly rational and fair minded individuals. Where they see bad seamanship on the part of others or even themselves in a situation, will hold their hand up and admit it. It costs nothing except to pride, and the lessons learned are invaluable. The honesty endears them to us, or me anyway, and I know I can place trust in them for it.

These people have made an internal evaluation of all events pertaining to this issue and have serious doubts and questions regarding the events. In the end, its up to the key players to move on with their lives and work out everything for themselves.

There is a cost if done incorrectly. There is a loss of respect from a large portion of the sailing community. This based on seamanship, attitude, inconsistencies, and post incident actions. I saw previous cordial relationships with the crew and members of C.F. dissolve due to many unanswered questions....

What R.H. do from here on in is absolutely NOTHING to do with me. It never was. I waited for all the results and explanations to be put out for examination, and I made my own decision.

I will never support anyone that I am not 100% sure that the situation is as stated. There has to a reasonable certainty that I will not get a nasty surprise later in the day........

So. End result for me is that I wish them well in their lives and will stand back from association, not that I had one to start with, and will refrain from offering any comment except to state that I am not convinced of the situation as stated and have unanswered questions.

As for lawsuits. It doesnt affect me. It doesnt affect Sailors. It doesnt affect ANYTHING I do. It really doesnt. I will not and cannot offer moral or ethical support for their future because it has NOTHING to do with me. If they had been a friend before, Im not sure the relationship would have lasted but that is speculation. I tend not to make friendships with overconfident people.

So we carry on. If there was a problem with the phone service then it will be sorted. If there was not it will be sorted.
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Old 21-07-2014, 02:27   #14
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Re: Rebel Heart Lawsuit

Ex-Calif:

I think it is a big stretch to suggest that Satphone service providers contracts have much effect on cruisers. Most cruisers are costally or geographically limitied because they are still w--king, as in will not require rescuing over 100 n. mi. offshore.

Not all of us look at fancy electronics as lifesavers anyway. Actually, I think the Kaufman's service provider let them down big time. But there are no laws in place to make them maintain emergency contact as are in place for cell phones. ....Well, all right, this may affect some cruisers!

But I will say this, there is definitely an expectation out there of being rescued. Whether it is realistic or not really depends on the conditions locally and where the vessel is at the time.


While I know people depend (in their hearts) upon being rescued, I, personally, am not sure that is actually a good thing. I think there are many unintended consequences of such thought.

My own feeling is that it is very risky for cruisers to attract lawmakers' attention.

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Old 21-07-2014, 02:42   #15
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Re: Rebel Heart Lawsuit

first post....but I've been following the forums since I joined. These Rebel Heart threads sure bring out the nasty on here...I just get the sense of entitlement instead of owning up. Way back at the beginning I think we heard from the sister that Eric planned on putting a locator on the boat if they left it out there, don't think the sister made that up. But then we hear Eric say they knew they would have to abandon the boat, that from their worldwide media blitz. They even got their lawyer to post a pic of Obama and the 4 guys who jumped in to rescue....Facebook....Isn't odd that someone that isn't afraid of calling out others wont accept his own failings. Things went against them sure but they pushed it...they broached because they were trying to take what they could instead of taking what was given. All they want is a settlement because that's what some people do. Their sole purpose is to be portrayed as the poor unfortunate that "corporate" america betrayed. "We want to get the money to pay back the government"......what a brilliant line that one was....finally someone fighting for the little guy. Its all about perception to increase their chance of settlement. Wheres the donation site for the defendant...I'll send them 20. It does seem their lawyer was a match made in heaven for them.
There is nothing to learn about sailing on rebel heart threads, because what really happened wont be told truthfully....it will always be colored to protect themselves.
Now there is something to learn about personal responsibly....hopefully.
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