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Old 23-07-2014, 09:23   #106
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Re: Rebel Heart Lawsuit

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Originally Posted by robert sailor View Post
I think this type of thinking (blaming others) is firmly imbedded into American culture
Maybe you see this as it pertains to the legal system of the US but I assure you people are generally the same, the world over. I can also assure you that most of the nay sayers, in regards to RH's law suit, would do exactly the same as they're doing, given the right circumstances. Their so called high moral standards would be lost in the dust of the race towards comfort and self righteousness.
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Old 23-07-2014, 09:39   #107
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Re: Rebel Heart Lawsuit

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I think this type of thinking (blaming others) is firmly imbedded into American culture
Its your fault for saying such a thing.
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Old 23-07-2014, 09:46   #108
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Re: Rebel Heart Lawsuit

Cute! Salty! CS While people might "think it" no other country I'm aware of allows this sort of stuff. In some countries we have been in you wouldn't even think it as the thought would be nothing more than a pipe dream.
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Old 23-07-2014, 09:57   #109
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Re: Rebel Heart Lawsuit

I wonder about their domicile. They have lived in Mexico for the previous few years; their children have dual citizenship (which I assume establishes they were officially living in Mexico at the time, as I believe Mexico has stronger requirements for birth certificates and citizenship than the US does). They set up shop in California for 3 months and then file lawsuit there. (I realize they lived in Ca before Mexico).

Can anyone move to Ca and file there since Ca appears to be friendlier to the consumer over corporations? Do people do this?

Does it not come into play in any way that they were in Mexico? (Perhaps they kept CA driver's license, etc)
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Old 23-07-2014, 10:04   #110
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Re: Rebel Heart Lawsuit

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Originally Posted by Spleen View Post
I wonder about their domicile. They have lived in Mexico for the previous few years; their children have dual citizenship (which I assume establishes they were officially living in Mexico at the time, as I believe Mexico has stronger requirements for birth certificates and citizenship than the US does). They set up shop in California for 3 months and then file lawsuit there. (I realize they lived in Ca before Mexico).

Can anyone move to Ca and file there since Ca appears to be friendlier to the consumer over corporations? Do people do this?

Does it not come into play in any way that they were in Mexico? (Perhaps they kept CA driver's license, etc)
This is what is called forum shopping. It is why RH is being sued by his wife instead of suing himself since he sighed a contract agreeing any suits would be filed in Florida.

No state has a shortage of PI suits, or lawyers who file them, and it is common for things like this to be thrown out for lack of standing to sue in the forum being shopped. But the number of cases on any court's docket means plenty are not thrown out.

I am still with the guys who think this case will never see the inside of a court room and is even unlikely to reach an out of court settlement. But it does give RH another fifteen minutes.
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Old 23-07-2014, 10:04   #111
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Re: Rebel Heart Lawsuit

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Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
Thanks. But my question still stands.

Why was the boat abandoned?

From one of the threads: "... As to damage.... Eric said the boat was broached, mast and sails under water, and forces on the sails and rigging while righting were transferred to the hull causing failure of the hull to deck joint. He estimated an immediate inrush of water at about 70 gallons if I recall correctly. Adding that water was also coming in from an unknown source...."

Stands in clear contradiction to what I could listen to in a 24 minute or so interview on youtube (10news Interview Eric and Charlotte Kaufman, Youtube).

They do not talk of any damage whatsoever.

If the boat was fine, why was she abandoned?


Anybody can PLS clarify this?

Thanks,
b.

As far as I am aware, we don't know the final answer about why exactly the boat was abandoned.

The choices seem to be:

1) Eric chose to evacuate with his family and so the boat had to be scuttled to keep it from being a navigational hazard.

2) The Navy forced Eric to evacuate with his family, thus causing the boat to have to be scuttled.

3) the boat was too unsafe to continue the journey

And what Eric's lawyer has said:

4) without an Epirb (they had used it) and without a satellite phone and without a radio, Eric was forced to abandon the boat since he was left with no communication devices.

5) any combination of the above

6) none of the above
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Old 23-07-2014, 10:06   #112
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Re: Rebel Heart Lawsuit

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This is what is called forum shopping. It is why RH is being sued by his wife instead of suing himself since he sighed a contract agreeing any suits would be filed in Florida.

No state has a shortage of PI suits, or lawyers who file them, and it is common for things like this to be thrown out for lack of standing to sue in the forum being shopped. But the number of cases on any court's docket means plenty are not thrown out.

I am still with the guys who think this case will never see the inside of a court room and is even unlikely to reach an out of court settlement. But it does give RH another fifteen minutes.
I'm with you on this: my personal opinion is it gets thrown out and they don't get a settlement.
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Old 23-07-2014, 10:11   #113
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Re: Rebel Heart Lawsuit

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Originally Posted by Spleen View Post
And what Eric's lawyer has said:

4) without an Epirb (they had used it) and without a satellite phone and without a radio, Eric was forced to abandon the boat since he was left with no communication devices.

5) any combination of the above

6) none of the above
If RH was in good shape and not shipping water all over the radio and other equipment, and the motor could be run to charge the batteries, and the SSB had been tested, wouldn't point 4 be moot? Could the condition of the boat (prep?) then be brought into the argument?
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Old 23-07-2014, 10:18   #114
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Re: Rebel Heart Lawsuit

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As for lawsuits. It doesnt affect me. It doesnt affect Sailors. It doesnt affect ANYTHING I do. It really doesnt.
Lawsuits do affect you in the form of higher prices for products, more regulations, more government involvement (and government is not free), etc.
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Old 23-07-2014, 10:20   #115
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Re: Rebel Heart Lawsuit

I would say the lawyer seems to be reaching with that comment. Also, could the Navy not have helped fix the radio considering they probably have spare parts (?) and were with him for 4 (?) days? Could they not have helped fix the leak and the radio? It is outrageous to suggest this could have happened?
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Old 23-07-2014, 10:27   #116
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Re: Rebel Heart Lawsuit

There is no possible in situ repair of a waterlogged radio and zero possibility that parachuting medical help will be carrying spare parts for a specific recreational radio, let alone have the expertise to do the repair.

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Old 23-07-2014, 10:28   #117
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Re: Rebel Heart Lawsuit

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Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
I think most cruisers have that kind of ignorance.
I hope not. May be some boat dreamers may have that kind of ignorance.

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Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
Do you look on that seeping little leak by the keel bolt and understand what is needed in the way of repairs the first time you see it? OF COURSE NOT!
I have no doubt that any cruisers will understand that this little leak need attention.

I have also no doubt that any cruisers will put all his ability in trying not to endanger his crews and not to be a burden on society.

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Pretty soon we won't be able to buy a boat.
Not sure about that. More likely that you may not be able to use it and that the boat will require serious surveying before it can be used by someone responsible for all the costs that the use of the boat may incur. The obvious case that peoples needs to be protected from themselves.


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I'm still having a hard time that anyone believes that lower tier satcomms over the last 15 years have been reliable enough to bet your life, your kids life or your floating home on one.

While a tool..even sometimes the space for a normal hammer doesn't allow enough swing....so no one tool or info stream is foolproof.
I will agree. Even so that the voice communication can be sometime totally inaudible it is still for me, a valuable tool to have if it is just to be able to receive weather predictions.

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I can't see how a global service provider like Iridium can offer a 911 service. Firstly there is no requirement to have a "country SIM". hence what number should be used.
I suppose the best way for you to find out is to buy an Iridium Satphone.

For Australia, Iridium has a Service Partner, X. And the dialling using a Satphone is the same that using a landline or a mobile phone. Adding a data pack to the Satphone allow the Satphone to connect with the internet or send and receive email using a Dial Up system which is an asset in an emergency situation when voice communication is not achievable. X does not contest that emailing must be available at all time for emergency communication. It is to be noted that X is able to see if a communication failed and investigate why. So far I always been compensated for failed communications but this may take a fair amount of time, pressure and good technical back ground to achieve this. I do not know if Iridium make great amount of money from sailors but in my view sailors would be the looser if that service was withdraw from them.

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
I think elevating a sat phone to an mission critical " or life critical" equipment status, is simply not appropriate.
Nor would I elevate an EPIRB. The seaworthiness of the boat is.
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Old 23-07-2014, 10:41   #118
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Re: Rebel Heart Lawsuit

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Originally Posted by colemj View Post
There is no possible in situ repair of a waterlogged radio and zero possibility that parachuting medical help will be carrying spare parts for a specific recreational radio, let alone have the expertise to do the repair.

Mark
Like many women (I suspect), this situation makes me realize I need to be more responsible and learn about these things rather than have DH handle them all the time.
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Old 23-07-2014, 10:44   #119
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Re: Rebel Heart Lawsuit

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Originally Posted by chala View Post
SNP

The seaworthiness of the boat is.
Not dissing the value of a seaworthy boat, but conventional wisdom is that most boats are much more capable than their captains.

I know for sure every boat I have had could take a lot more than I could.

Of course I would never go out of sight of land on a boat with rotten plywood on the deck close to chainplates and keep sails up with out a hand on the main sheet if I thought there was any chance of a knockdown.

How many times have abandoned boats been found floating months after the folks got off of them.
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Old 23-07-2014, 11:03   #120
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Re: Rebel Heart Lawsuit

Interesting. We had a similar episode with the same satellite provider in which our service was cut off without warning, leaving us in mid-pacific leaving without service for 8 days. It is a long story and I do share some responsibility. I later contacted customer service, mostly to vent and in the hope of preventing this from happening to someone else. I tried to explain (very nicely, I thought) that their customers depend on their service and that the provider should be more circumspect in cutting off service without warning,. They were unapologetic and basically said that their hands were tied by Iridium in this regard. (If only they had listed, eh?)

When we take off again next year we will likely use the same service again, as their tech support is excellent. However, there seems to be a lot of confusion on the customer service side of the business and we will stay in frequent contact with them to try to prevent another fiasco.
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