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Old 20-12-2014, 14:32   #226
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Re: Rebel Heart Lawsuit

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Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
So, better or "better"?

And, if so, which opinions are the "better" ones? And who is to judge?

Then we can start shooting down the posters who dare to write the worse ones. ;-)

C'mon: all opinions are equal, they are opinions after all. And this is a forum, people should be encouraged, not discouraged, to speak up.

If we start labeling opinions, we may just as well close the shop and start preaching.

;-)
b.
You forgot to also state that every participant should get a first place trophy to take home. Obviously you're not quite up to speed on the PC way to raise kids these days, but you're frighteningly close!

To answer your question, we ALL judge which are the better opinions and worse opinions based on all the other information we have amassed that relates to the subject being discussed and about the poster stating the opinion. For better or worse, the way it is in the real world....
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Old 20-12-2014, 14:48   #227
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Re: Rebel Heart Lawsuit

Hey that's hurts my self esteem....

I'm good enough
I'm Smart enough....
And doggone it, people like me....

https://video.search.yahoo.com/video...t=mozilla&tt=b

Then you become a US Senator...not that's the Funny Part!
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Old 20-12-2014, 15:26   #228
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Re: Rebel Heart Lawsuit

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Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
With reference to Spleen's Post #170

The assumption that Charlotte was actively suicidal is incorrect. She was involved in the process of talking herself out of taking her own life. She was actually engaged in a healthy process that ended with her seeking support of two outside people.

Incest is one of our prime taboos in most of Western Society. The violation of that taboo is at once titillating and horrifying. The long term effects of such behavior on the survivors can be tremendous, and can be helped by psychotherapy. If anyone here is interested, there is a book, "The Betrayal of Innocence" by Susan Froward which tells about the issues involved.

I would caution anyone reading blogs to remember that the information in them is only what someone chose to write at some time. It represents a truth to the writer, but can never be the whole truth. Lots of bits are left out, some because they're boring (like details of cleaning things), others because even though the writer wants to feel connected to their perceived friends, he or she hasn't the time to spend writing, personal censorship, and so on. Therefore any particular blog datum may not truly give the whole picture, but only a representation of it, chosen by the author.

Ann
Neither you nor I nor anyone else other than Charlotte can say for sure that she wasn't "actively suicidal." But she surely was entertaining the idea or she wouldn't have written about it. I'm no more her shrink than you are, so neither of us have any special insights into her minds inner workings, but lots of folks who eventually commit suicide do talk to others about the possibility as a way for calling out for help, and only after it happens does everyone suddenly realize he/she was actually serious about it. Frequently when it happens it's a surprise to even those who knew the victim quite well. "I knew he/she was upset or traumatized but..." is a refrain commonly heard after a suicide.

We all get upset about various issues in our lives and I can't even imagine successfully navigating the emotional trauma of incest so I'm not judging her as a person, but very few of us ever get to the point of even considering suicide as a possibility to ourselves. let alone mentioning it to the general public via a blog. Whether she was "actively suicidal" or not, it's pretty clear to me that Charlotte was NOT emotionally healthy enough to undertake a first ocean crossing, especially with an inexperienced skipper and two young children to care for, even if the kids were healthy and the boat was perfectly maintained and equipped. It's a situation that was bound to become stressful and after having read some of her blog posts from not long before their departure, the LAST thing she was ready for was to take on more stress than she was dealing with while back in Mexico.

It's a real shame that their dream blew up so dramatically and so publicly but despite the attitude he projected in his many CF posts, I think it's pretty clear that they were fooling themselves that they were even close to ready for such an undertaking as crossing the Pacific with 2 youngs kids and no crew aboard. I'm all for families cruising long distances, even families with young children, but this particular family had about 2 1/2 too many strikes against them before they even set out, yet apparently didn't have the self awareness to understand that. Fortunately, they are young and have plenty of time to learn from this once all the hoopla and legal maneuvering has settled down, and they can pause and truly absorb the life lessons to be learned from this close call, and if their dream is still to cruise as a family, hopefully they will make it happen when the time is right.
tit·il·late

(tĭt′l-āt′)v. tit·il·lat·ed, tit·il·lat·ing, tit·il·lates
v.tr.1. To stimulate by touching lightly; tickle.
2. To excite (another) pleasurably, superficially or erotically.

v.intr. To excite another, especially in a superficial, pleasurable manner: "a steamy story of sex and violence, adultery and murder, designed to titillate as well as to shock" (John Guy).

Personally, I find incest to be horrifying and disgusting, but definitely NOT titillating!
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Old 20-12-2014, 15:37   #229
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Re: Rebel Heart Lawsuit

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I think it's pretty clear that they were fooling themselves that they were even close to ready for such an undertaking as crossing the Pacific
As you seem to be (Fooling yourself) in assuming you have a clue about what their mental state was really like. I've said it before, but it is important and needs repeating. What you read on someone blog is a story, fiction, a play, written for the audience for character development and blog clicks. A good blog does this in a way that makes the reader not know he is reading a script, produced for their entertainment. She had a character roll to portray that people loved and so did Eric. You are fooling yourself if you think those character rolls were an accurate representation of who they really were when the blog lights were off.

Then there is the fact that all Cruisers Fool Themselves into thinking they are ready for their first offshore passage. We would watch people with far less seamanship skills and less seaworthy boats cast off from Mexico to the South Pacific each season, shaking our heads. They made it and were heroes with stories abound, Rebel Heart didn't make it and now are the convenient whipping post for everyone that thinks anyone not as smart as them couldn't do it...BS, I've seen less prepared cruisers and boats make the SP crossing and be celebrated for it.

Now do I think they will see a dime from this ridiculous lawsuit...no, nor do I think they should. But that doesn't mean I'm going to start attacking them personally...that my friends is TOTAL BULLSHIT it's about time the cruising community stops eating their own.
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Old 20-12-2014, 15:37   #230
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Re: Rebel Heart Lawsuit

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Originally Posted by jtsailjt View Post

I think it's pretty clear that they were fooling themselves that they were even close to ready for such an undertaking as crossing the Pacific with 2 youngs kids and no crew aboard. I'm all for families cruising long distances, even families with young children, but this particular family had about 2 1/2 too many strikes against them before they even set out, yet apparently didn't have the self awareness to understand that. Fortunately, they are young and have plenty of time to learn from this once all the hoopla and legal maneuvering has settled down, and they can pause and truly absorb the life lessons to be learned from this close call, and if their dream is still to cruise as a family, hopefully they will make it happen when the time is right.
Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner. In society today almost everyone thinks it is someone else FAULT.
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Old 20-12-2014, 15:47   #231
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Re: Rebel Heart Lawsuit

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Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY View Post
Then there is the fact that all Cruisers Fool Themselves into thinking they are ready for their first offshore passage.
All of us?

Ahh. From reading these forums, I see that until you've completed several offshore passages you're not ready to undertake an offshore passage.
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Old 20-12-2014, 16:05   #232
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Re: Rebel Heart Lawsuit

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Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY View Post
As you seem to be (Fooling yourself) in assuming you have a clue about what their mental state was really like. I've said it before, but it is important and needs repeating. What you read on someone blog is a story, fiction, a play, written for the audience for character development and blog clicks. A good blog does this in a way that makes the reader not know he is reading a script, produced for their entertainment. She had a character roll to portray that people loved and so did Eric. You are fooling yourself if you think those character rolls were an accurate representation of who they really were when the blog lights were off.

Then there is the fact that all Cruisers Fool Themselves into thinking they are ready for their first offshore passage. We would watch people with far less seamanship skills and less seaworthy boats cast off from Mexico to the South Pacific each season, shaking our heads. They made it and were heroes with stories abound, Rebel Heart didn't make it and are now are the convenient shipping post for for everyone that thinks anyone not as smart as them couldn't do it...BS, I've seen worse make it and be celebrated for it.
I think I was pretty clear in saying that neither I nor you or any of us know just what their mental state was, but it's very clear that it wasn't up to crossing the Pacific. I understand your point about a blog being more show than true insight into the bloggers mind, and agree that in many (but not all!) cases that's largely true, but what adult in their right mind even toys with the possibility of suicide shortly before launching themselves off into an environment they are completely unfamiliar with, knowing they and their babies will potentially be at risk in this environment, and goes ahead anyway? Who takes on one of the longest passages possible in the biggest ocean as a very first offshore cruising step? Who attempts it basically singlehanded BUT ALSO with 3 huge distractions he is emotionally attached to down below that he also must deal with? Who takes their kids into that environment, far from any professional medical help when they are so recently recovered from a serious illness. This family wasn't ready for all that and very few folks would be.

I too have known of people (and known some too) who didn't seem to have the first clue about seamanship but successfully survived offshore and I've known some very sharp and experienced people who ran aground before they even got out of their home harbor. That's nothing new. Lack of seamanship wasn't even close to the whole story here. Anyone who read of Tania Aebi's first night "anchored" off Sandy Hook with the anchor barely hanging below her bow is familiar with the type. Tania was very lucky at first and her good luck allowed her to learn as she went along so in time she turned herself into an accomplished mariner and made it all the way around the world. But during those first few weeks when she barely had half a clue herself, she didn't have 3 (emotionally or physically) sick passengers she was emotionally attached to that she also had to deal with. So yes, lots of folks have successfully gone to sea with no greater seamanship skills than Eric had, and probably quite a few with much less of a clue, but most of them weren't also trying to deal with the other things I've mentioned to add to the difficulty of running a boat all by himself and adjusting to life at sea 24/7 with no relief available to him.
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Old 20-12-2014, 16:32   #233
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Re: Rebel Heart Lawsuit

The problem is not that they were not ready for an ocean passage but that the baby was not ready.
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Old 20-12-2014, 17:19   #234
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Re: Rebel Heart Lawsuit

Eric and his family seem like nice people... Hope everything works out ok for them. Don't really give a **** about the attorneys! Phil
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Old 20-12-2014, 17:40   #235
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Re: Rebel Heart Lawsuit

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Eric and his family seem like nice people... Hope everything works out ok for them. Don't really give a **** about the attorneys! Phil
They're not suing the attorneys. They're paying them to sue a telecommunications service company. The attorneys will come out ahead no matter what.

As a telecommunications company customer, part of what consumers pay is the legally permitted costs of their provider. Part of those costs are their insurance. So in essence, they're suing the other customers.

Can the public really be held responsible for all the risks taken by telecommunications company subscribers, without consideration of their own choices?

If someone wrecks their car because they were driving too fast for conditions, is the telecom company responsible for their car damages because they were in a dead spot and didn't have cellular service to call for help? If that were the case, telecom service would be a lot more expensive.
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Old 20-12-2014, 21:46   #236
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Re: Rebel Heart Lawsuit

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They're not suing the attorneys. They're paying them to sue a telecommunications service company. The attorneys will come out ahead no matter what.

As a telecommunications company customer, part of what consumers pay is the legally permitted costs of their provider. Part of those costs are their insurance. So in essence, they're suing the other customers.

Can the public really be held responsible for all the risks taken by telecommunications company subscribers, without consideration of their own choices?

If someone wrecks their car because they were driving too fast for conditions, is the telecom company responsible for their car damages because they were in a dead spot and didn't have cellular service to call for help? If that were the case, telecom service would be a lot more expensive.
That's most likely already calculated in the cost of providing such service. Putting all questions of their semanship aside if they contracted for a satellite service, legally speaking - was it foreseeable for the satellite co. that the customer will rely upon their service for his survival? I say in the case of a satellite telephone loud yes. And that's reliance and its consequenses are already priced into their fee structure, or it should be. This is no different than automobile manufacturer providing subpar brakes or seat belts and than having to pay for the failures resulting in losses/damages to the drivers or their passengers.

Somehow I find it strange that the same people who harp on those who are victims of subpar service or parts accusing them of "seeking to shift responsibility" yet are perfectly fine with providers of subpar service/parts when these companies try to shift their own responsibility onto the backs of their customers or society at large.

And in my perfect world all such judgments against a company would only be paid out of the management's salaries/perks and/or out of the shareholders shares directly and not by consumers or society at large via higher prices. That way there would be much fewer of such contractual breaches.
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Old 21-12-2014, 00:34   #237
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Re: Rebel Heart Lawsuit

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The ruling, issued Wednesday by San Diego Superior Court Judge Judith Hayes, cited a provision in the contract signed by Eric Kaufman with the satellite phone company, Whenever Communications. The provision required the holder of the contract to file any lawsuits against the company in Florida, where its headquarters are located.

I was never a fan of Eric and Charlotte suing or being able to sue. I did not expect them to win.

However the ruling that this is a jurisdictional matter is unsettling.

The little guy is always at a disadvantage. To state that the plaintiff must sue in Florida when their service was purchased in California is unfair. How is an individual supposed to go up against a company with vast (in comparison) resources when one not only has to engage attorneys but also wage war on the other side of the continent? The company may as well be in India for Pete's sake.

I say if you do business in my state/county/city, I should be able to bring suit here.

Island Time expresses anger towards the business leaders - I don't disagree but they are just playing the board game like everyone else.

Companies, in general, have way to much advantage in this country over the individual.
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Old 21-12-2014, 01:18   #238
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Re: Rebel Heart Lawsuit

This decision does not make sense. The plaintiff was Mrs K who did not sign the contract and so was suing the company in tort rather than contract. As I see it only Mr K can be sent to Florida because only he signed the contract.
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Old 21-12-2014, 01:19   #239
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Re: Rebel Heart Lawsuit

Without jurisdiction, the court.

can not issue a valid Judgement.

Without a valid jurisdiction.

A courts Judgement.

Would have no meaning.

It would not be enforceable in any land.

Lloyd


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They better get an Admiralty lawyer. Before the re-file in Florida. As this is clearly a claim of breach of contract, a maritime contract. It will get booted in state court again.

As all claims sounding in Maritime, are preempted by Federal laws.

Lloyd
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Originally Posted by Ex-Calif View Post
I was never a fan of Eric and Charlotte suing or being able to sue. I did not expect them to win.

However the ruling that this is a jurisdictional matter is unsettling.

The little guy is always at a disadvantage. To state that the plaintiff must sue in Florida when their service was purchased in California is unfair. How is an individual supposed to go up against a company with vast (in comparison) resources when one not only has to engage attorneys but also wage war on the other side of the continent? The company may as well be in India for Pete's sake.

I say if you do business in my state/county/city, I should be able to bring suit here.

Island Time expresses anger towards the business leaders - I don't disagree but they are just playing the board game like everyone else.

Companies, in general, have way to much advantage in this country over the individual.
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Old 21-12-2014, 01:22   #240
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Re: Rebel Heart Lawsuit

Because it sounds in Maritime, it lands in Fed Dist.

It will not survive a state court.

PERIOD.

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This decision does not make sense. The plaintiff was Mrs K who did not sign the contract and so was suing the company in tort rather than contract. As I see it only Mr K can be sent to Florida because only he signed the contract.
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