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Old 23-07-2014, 16:23   #136
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Re: Rebel Heart Lawsuit

Irony: Service provider shutting off the satphone of a customer the day they SUCCESSFULLY debited his account for service.

I actually think the sat phone provider is VERY lucky this isn't worse.

Had Eric NOT had an Epirb on board and the baby (Lyra) died because the Sat Phone service was cut off while seeking medical help via satphone, this would be very ugly for Whenever and I'd imagine there would be a mob of CF people with pitchforks heading to Whenever to discuss their actions with them.

Out of curiosity, I went to Whenever's website and read their information on their services. Under FAQ sections, it says the phone is never shut off, even if you go over your minutes AND the iridium system provides global coverage.

From their website: "Iridium satellite phones are true global phones. With an Iridium satellite phone, you will be able to make and receive calls anywhere in the world for the same rate. Iridium satellite phones are used by Governments, Military, Rescue Teams, Emergency Workers, Hikers, Climbers, Skiers and virtually anyone that must have voice and small data communication at any point on earth."

What I can't understand, is why the provider didn't call Eric and ask why he hadn't activated the sim card before they shut him off. He would have responded, "I never received it, and I currently am in the middle of the ocean and have a medical emergency." I'm pretty sure this is going to come up in court.

As far as the boat being unseaworthy, that is going to be very hard for the phone company to prove, as Eric sailed it and the rescuers to the FFG that picked them up. Several people have mentioned they had no power or engine, to that I refer you to a man named Joshua Slocum.

A special note to all the people that Eric deleted his posts as a cover up and to screw the provider. Seriously? Eric and Charlotte aren't the IRS and his blog site WILL turn over the "deleted" posts and the provider will get them during discovery. I imagine they took them down either to minimize the amount of negative remarks (similar to some post above) they had been getting on their blogs, or under instructions of their attorney, or both.
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Old 23-07-2014, 16:25   #137
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Re: Rebel Heart Lawsuit

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Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
Well, the EPIRB we carry onboard can be switched on and off.

And the battery lasts well over the required 48hrs in warm waters conditions too.

It definitely can be used for say 12 hours then switched off and used again a couple days later for another 12 hours, and so on.

Are there any makes around that cannot be used like this?

b.
Don't know the answer to your question, but have seen a product from SPOT that seems to provide similar functions to an EPIRB but is advertised as having a much better power management set up.

Guess what I am trying to get at is that EPIRB tec seems to be falling behind if you have to pay a couple of hundred dollars for a new battery when a SPOT would broadcast your position, allow basic email, and could easily be powered; at least from what the ads say.

One positive outcome for me from this thread is that I may have to change my view on EPIRB, sat phone, and go with something like SPOT. Any of you smart guys have opinions on the pros and cons of these products and any others you feel are worth a look.
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Old 23-07-2014, 16:41   #138
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Re: Rebel Heart Lawsuit

I'm going to have the DH check out our Epirb model also to see what specifics we are dealing with.
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Old 23-07-2014, 17:03   #139
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Re: Rebel Heart Lawsuit

For t hose interested in the issues of "expired" EPIRBs, check out this thread:
GME EPIRB Recall.

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Old 23-07-2014, 17:06   #140
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Re: Rebel Heart Lawsuit

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Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY View Post
An interesting thing would be to limit the responses to only people that have ever sailed 100 or so miles from land for...oh say...3-5 days to have gained a little prespective on what it's like to be "alone" out on the water.

Would we have different opinions?
Would we have more understanding or would those be more brutal in their comments?

Then lets look at the opinions of cruisers who have cruised with their kids...I bet you would see a different tone than we are seeing by many posters/experts/second guessers. You wouldn't find me on a trip like that with two kids of that age, heck I don't have that much energy for two little kids that age on a boat! But then what do I know, I'm a bozo that acccording to my family and friends put our kids lives in danger by taking them cruising in the first place.

It's not the finding fault with RH that I don't care for it's the nastiness and almost joy that some people find in point it out. **** we made MANY decisions during our time out cruising that could have ended badly, we all do, and if you can't admit that, then you have a bigger ego and problem than RH.

Being alone out on the water has nothing to do with a frivolous lawsuit used to take blame away from your actions.


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Old 23-07-2014, 17:25   #141
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Re: Rebel Heart Lawsuit

Quote:
Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
Well, the EPIRB we carry onboard can be switched on and off.

And the battery lasts well over the required 48hrs in warm waters conditions too.

It definitely can be used for say 12 hours then switched off and used again a couple days later for another 12 hours, and so on.

Are there any makes around that cannot be used like this?

b.
Sure they can be turned on and off...but the "design" of an EPIRB is for one rescue..not multiple rescues.

There are stories of how people managed their EPIRB in what they thought was the proper sequence to maximize rescue...but again...not really what the item was designed for.


From...Cospat/Sarsat webpage...

Battery replacement must be performed no later than the date indicated on the beacon label, or after activation in an emergency. During each routine inspection, verify the time remaining until replacement is required. You may also need to replace the battery earlier than indicated on the label if you have conducted an excessive number of self-tests. A healthy battery is necessary to ensure proper functioning, and sufficient operating life, of a beacon if it is activated in an emergency.
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Old 23-07-2014, 17:31   #142
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Re: Rebel Heart Lawsuit

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Originally Posted by tomfl View Post
Don't know the answer to your question, but have seen a product from SPOT that seems to provide similar functions to an EPIRB but is advertised as having a much better power management set up.

Guess what I am trying to get at is that EPIRB tec seems to be falling behind if you have to pay a couple of hundred dollars for a new battery when a SPOT would broadcast your position, allow basic email, and could easily be powered; at least from what the ads say.

One positive outcome for me from this thread is that I may have to change my view on EPIRB, sat phone, and go with something like SPOT. Any of you smart guys have opinions on the pros and cons of these products and any others you feel are worth a look.
I think you will find the Delorme Inreach is a better deal than SPOT,and it does more.My next piece of safety gear will be a Delorme.
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Old 23-07-2014, 17:31   #143
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Re: Rebel Heart Lawsuit

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Originally Posted by deckofficer View Post
For your very first post this is what you offered up?

The makeup of CF is changing before me eyes and I don't care for what I'm seeing.
Been a lurker here for more than a few years, and have a dozen or so posts in threads that have since "disappeared". As this one will in time, no doubt.
Some didn't even involve the Kaufman's, heh.
And for what it's worth, the Rebel Heart crew don't pass the 100nm test either...well without sinking your boat & a lawsuit that is.

The central tenet of their (current) story, is that they believed their youngest child was gravely ill, and they needed outside assistance to instruct them on how to properly provide the meds they had onboard with them.

Let's flip this around to something that doesn't involve the emotional heartstrings of an infant. What if we were talking about a practical piece of gear. Being the hip Gen X'er boat owners they don't have any hardcopies cluttering up the cabin, they can download any manual or FedEx any spare part they need when they need it. A hose clamp on a through hull comes loose, sat phone goes down, and boat sinks because they can't access the relevant instructions on how to work a screwdriver.

Yeah I wouldn't support that suit either.
I fail to see how getting instructions from Dr. Jose Cuervo on how to eyedropper antibiotics into a 1yr old is that different.
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Old 23-07-2014, 17:40   #144
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Re: Rebel Heart Lawsuit

S/V Third Day,
I did not post anything in the RH threads regarding what happened. I was quite impressed with Eric's candor in his responses in the face of antagonistic posts. Good on him. What I have a problem with is this lawsuit when the causality (or nexus) between whatever wrong 'whenever' did and the loss of RH and their 'distress' is so remote. In terms of punitive damages and damages for their distress - I really don't see that falling on the shoulders of 'whenever'. Alternatively, I'm not defending 'whenever' and there may be legal wrongs that company did. However, and in my view, very little of what 'whenever' did resulted in all the damages being claimed in the RH suit. Being critical of the Claimant's position (even if they may be right - in part) is open game. I have relatively few postings - in part as a result of my discovery that there is much zeal in CF - not all of it is positive. However, this thread is more about opinion than fact.
Cheers,
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Old 23-07-2014, 17:53   #145
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Re: Rebel Heart Lawsuit

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Originally Posted by Dilligaf0220 View Post
Been a lurker here for more than a few years, and have a dozen or so posts in threads that have since "disappeared". As this one will in time, no doubt.
Some didn't even involve the Kaufman's, heh.
And for what it's worth, the Rebel Heart crew don't pass the 100nm test either...well without sinking your boat & a lawsuit that is.

The central tenet of their (current) story, is that they believed their youngest child was gravely ill, and they needed outside assistance to instruct them on how to properly provide the meds they had onboard with them.

Let's flip this around to something that doesn't involve the emotional heartstrings of an infant. What if we were talking about a practical piece of gear. Being the hip Gen X'er boat owners they don't have any hardcopies cluttering up the cabin, they can download any manual or FedEx any spare part they need when they need it. A hose clamp on a through hull comes loose, sat phone goes down, and boat sinks because they can't access the relevant instructions on how to work a screwdriver.

Yeah I wouldn't support that suit either.
I fail to see how getting instructions from Dr. Jose Cuervo on how to eyedropper antibiotics into a 1yr old is that different.

Humorous and well said.


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Old 23-07-2014, 17:55   #146
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Re: Rebel Heart Lawsuit

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Being alone out on the water has nothing to do with a frivolous lawsuit used to take blame away from your actions.
Who in the world said it did...not I. Or are you assuming we can only address the title of the thread and not the others making their attachs and acusations from their lake sailer?
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Old 23-07-2014, 18:10   #147
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Re: Rebel Heart Lawsuit

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S/V Third Day,
I did not post anything in the RH threads regarding what happened. I was quite impressed with Eric's candor in his responses in the face of antagonistic posts. Good on him. What I have a problem with is this lawsuit when the causality (or nexus) between whatever wrong 'whenever' did and the loss of RH and their 'distress' is so remote. In terms of punitive damages and damages for their distress - I really don't see that falling on the shoulders of 'whenever'. Alternatively, I'm not defending 'whenever' and there may be legal wrongs that company did. However, and in my view, very little of what 'whenever' did resulted in all the damages being claimed in the RH suit. Being critical of the Claimant's position (even if they may be right - in part) is open game. I have relatively few postings - in part as a result of my discovery that there is much zeal in CF - not all of it is positive. However, this thread is more about opinion than fact.
Cheers,
Bill
Bill Not sure why you addressed your comment to me as if I addressed mine to you or one of your posts becasue I hadn't. But if I'm tagged as someone calling for more compasion and less vitrol then I'll take that stand proudly.

I personally think this lawsuit is bat **** crazy and doesn't stand as much chance of a MacGregor 26 doing a Circumnavigation...but what does it matter what I think...because as you said this thread is more about opinion than fact.

What bothers me is how some turn this into some personal attack on RH and crew and all but call them fraudsters. Because she washed dirty diapers in the sink it was her fault...**** I've washed head parts, diesel injectors, raw water pumps, fish guts and god only knows what else out in my sink so call me a bad father and captain then, but that's the level of insanity we are at when the folks go on attach after RH. Broke, dejeted, embarassed, humiliated, broken and in search of someone to blame with a chance promised by an attorney to get a little money so they have a chance to "get out there again"....sure...but Fraudsters who set this whole thing up for PR and fame? Get out. No I (nor anyone here) knows them well enough to make those type of statements and that is what I was and will continue to call Bull#!$! on.
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Old 23-07-2014, 18:23   #148
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Re: Rebel Heart Lawsuit

The point about the diaper washing in the sink is actually a hugely valid point as Salmonella is shed for several days to several weeks in feces and in some cases, has continued to be shed in feces for over a year. https://www.ndhealth.gov/disease/Doc...monellosis.pdf

It is usually transmitted fecal/oral.

"Treatment of any kind must always be accompanied by infection control measures to prevent the spread of Salmonella and prevent re-infection of the person or animal. It is not possible to predict how long a person or animal will shed Salmonella following infection, but shedding may persist intermittently for weeks. The duration of shedding is likely influenced by the patients overall health and the condition of the normal bacterial population in the intestine." http://www.wormsandgermsblog.com/upl...20Owner(1).pdf

For bleach to kill salmonella, 3/4 cup in a gallon of water has to sit for 5 minutes and air dry. We don't know if they used bleach on board or not.

(I'm not sure the diaper issue was referenced in this thread though...)
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Old 23-07-2014, 18:39   #149
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Re: Rebel Heart Lawsuit

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Cute! Salty! CS While people might "think it" no other country I'm aware of allows this sort of stuff. In some countries we have been in you wouldn't even think it as the thought would be nothing more than a pipe dream.
Yes...but is that a good thing or bad thing?
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Old 23-07-2014, 18:50   #150
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Re: Rebel Heart Lawsuit

Well -This thread is in its death spiral.

As I posted when I started this - All the woulda, coulda, shoulda was done to death in the other threads.

I hoped we would no go back to actions on the boat and keep this sorta around what the complaint says and how this plays out legally.

And if we don't avoid attacking RH - he is still a member here - or each other this thread will be closed for sure.

I'd like to see it stay open until Weather responds - It will be interesting to see the battle lines.

As far as attorney contingency fees? This is pipeline. I am sure as a good contingency lawyer he has a lot of cases in the pipeline. He knows how long it takes to get a court date and he will know what Whenever plans to use in defense soon. Then they wait each other out like a poker hand and see who blinks or folds or split the pot.

So far Gilleon has filed a couple of pieces of paper and put in maybe 10 hours. He has already been paid back in publicity.

Neither party wants to go to court, they will meet (maybe mandated by the court if they don't settle beforehand) and hash out a deal. Cheaper for all and then it's another round of poker on how the pot is split.

Anyway kids lets play nice!
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