Protocol When Cruising With Guns

[Jentine]

Recently, a story was related to me by a respectable sailor. His boat was stolen from South Carolina. The local police told him that as soon as the boat left the harbor it was out of their jurisdiction and there was nothing they could do. He reported the theft to the Coast Guard. He was told that there was little they could do. They don't look for stolen boats, but if they run across it they would inform him.
No one apparently cared about the theft until he reported the theft of a shotgun that was aboard the boat. The FBI got involved and learned the identity of the thief. They sent notices to all law inforcement agencies. The thief was aprehended by the Canadian Border officials when he attempted to enter the country.
If he did not have a gun aboard, there would have been no report and no arrest. I guess that if you want to get justice, you need a gun.

[shadow]

That story alone really shows what state of mind the "agencies" are in!! getting a paycheck to do nothing for anyone but spending time and energies on ridiculous matters!!

I love hearing the real stories about such matters. It just keeps confirming the obvious!

[swami maximus]

Thanks GordMay. This is precisely what I was looking for, as was the advice that things change even en route to your destination. (I also knew it was a bit too much to expect an "opinion free" discussion- though I thought it worth a shot). Now, not to shut down the thread, I think my curiosities have been satisfied... but if anyone has any further helpful insight (sans opinions) they are welcomed.

[swami maximus]

So I wanted to move from this aspect of safety, to another and started a related but different topic thread with the same thoughts in mind.
For what its worth, I believe if one is capable, the best way to secure ones safety in a foreign country is to learn the bloody language and talk with people.

click here for the link to the new topic thread...

[SeaSloth]

Heck, this has to be the politest conversation on this topic I've ever seen.

What exactly constitutes a "sealable locker" or "custom's locker"? Is there some standard to which they need to be built to?

[Pblais]

What exactly constitutes a "sealable locker" or "custom's locker"?

That aspect is reserved for the customs official when you arrive. There are no "standards" uniformly applied other than as stated. As the above posts indicate uniformity is not a common term used to describe customs officials.

[Kanani]

Originally Posted by denalione

Heck, this has to be the politest conversation on this topic I've ever seen.

What exactly constitutes a "sealable locker" or "custom's locker"? Is there some standard to which they need to be built to?

Typically, it is a locker that cannot be opened in any way other than a door that is sealable by the customs agent.

If you have a regular wood locker in your boat that you can put a hasp on for a padlock, it may be acceptable by one customs agent and not another (even in the same country). If it is percieved to be accesable by some other means, other than the sealed door, it may not (and probably won't) pass. A welded closed locker on a steel boat, with a steel door and unaccessable hinges, would probably pass. Even then, some countries will not allow firearms unless you have a 24-hour guard (like on a commercial ship). Some, won't allow them at all.

The bigger issue is the fact that YOU are liable for the contents of that locker NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS. That means if your boat is broken into and the contents removed, you are resposible for any duty or laws that may have been committed by the removal of the contents. A VERY risky proposition when it comes to firearms.

I would say that if that happens to you, get on the next plane out of the country or be prepared to spend a long time in some very nasty jail, where you don't understand what Buba is telling you to do. The other alternative would be just to leave the country without checking out and sail back to your home port (just hope that the thief wasn't a cousin of the customs officer and he sees you leaving). If you check into another port (without clearing Customs from your previous port), there is the chance of being arrested at that port.

[Pelagic]

Perhaps a bit off topic, but it does pertain to defending yourself while cruising.
One of the problems when talking about “Legal correctness” if visiting a foreign country on a yacht, is, as other have said, interpretation. This can be a double edged sword.
In some countries like the USA, the letter of the law is dissected ad infinitum and applied dogmatically, while in many other countries with much older cultures, the “intent” of the law carries more weight on what a ruling is based on.
My advice to anyone cruising in other countries and cultures is to do your homework on the philosophy of their legal system, be ready to apply that knowledge as to how you present yourself in case of any legal difficulties and if you can demonstrate an understanding of their protocols, forgiveness is usually much easier to attain.

[Kanani]

Far better to just keep your nose clean in the first place IMO. Common sense and courtesy will usually get you by in most cases.

[merlinslave]

So having skimmed over the posted comments on this topic I didn't see one (might have missed it) on the only concern I have on the subject which is cruising the western canadian cost and the concerns over bears on shore at remote anchorages. I've purchesed a boat in the area and will begin this spring. I know that a shore line is quit often used and am thinking of those situations. Any thoughts on this out there?

[Pblais]

Any thoughts on this out there?

Carrying guns while cruising not withstanding a close range shot at a bear is best performed with a high powered rifle and you may be amazed that the actual target area is quite small for actually stopping a bear let alone killing one. Missing the target will only make them really mad.

Black bears tend to prefer fresh water. Their ability to fish on shore is quite limited given their sized and bulk. Streams are far easier for them and I'm sure you won't be sailing up any streams. Canadian gun regulations apply in the entire country - even where there may be bears.

[Pelagic]

Paul, you will find in remote places where grizzles are numerous, that gun laws are locally relaxed so that humans can have protection when going into the bush. I used to sail the inside passage frequently and often did 7 day kayaking trips down the rivers during salmon runs.

There are many tricks to making sure you don’t have a nasty encounter with a surprised bear and carrying a 12 gauge shotgun with some “bear slugs” was considered prudent when making camp.

Many close encounters, but never had to resort to taking the shotgun off safety.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by merlinslave

So having skimmed over the posted comments on this topic I didn't see one (might have missed it) on the only concern I have on the subject which is cruising the western canadian cost and the concerns over bears on shore at remote anchorages. I've purchesed a boat in the area and will begin this spring. I know that a shore line is quit often used and am thinking of those situations. Any thoughts on this out there?

I suggest you contact the relevant authorities in Canada and find out exactly what you are permitted to do.

I certainly wouldnt rely on information from a forum regarding firearm laws.

I doubt if "I read it was OK on a cruisers forum" would be accepted as a defence in court.

[Pelagic]

44 is absolutely correct but also contact the local Fish and Widlife Dept for advice on the reality of where you wish to wander ashore. Most places are fairly safe.

[Pblais]

Customs laws are never relaxed. I've never met a Canadian French speaking customs official that was ever relaxed about anything.

Most fish and game laws are pretty loose if you are a local.