Protocol When Cruising With Guns

[Wavewacker]

How do you get through NY or Chicago with guns on board? I realize the states, counties and municipalities don't have custom types upon entry, can you pass through?

We have gang wannabes here, not just kids but older adults too. Nothing in town I can't walk through at midnight. Drive bys have missed. Home invasions were up until a homeowner killed a couple of them.

I'd be more concerned about drunks shooting at the boat from the woods, which has happened.

If I were heading further south I'd leave the guns at home or stash them before I enterd forbidden areas.

[Captivy]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Somali gangs in the US. Maybe we've convinced all the world to send you their gangs. The final massive shoot up between all the gangs and the RTBA crowd will be massive !
Dave

Gangs love easy access to weapons.

[IslandHopper]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

There is all sorts of problems with these mercenaries on board freight vessels, some brits got arrested a while back when they came ashore.A lot of vessels pick up the mercs at sea and unload them again. The IMO does not sanctions crews being armed at sea on merchant ships and few captains want a cache of arms aboard for any length of time anyway.

Dave

Actually the IMO has significantly softened their approach to the use of private maritime security companies (PMSC) providing privately contracted armed security personnel on board ships transiting high risk areas. While not exactly endorsing there use, they have accepted there is a need for them and have been providing guidance for a couple of years now. China Navigation (CNCo), which comes under the same group of companies that i work for, has used them twice that i know of by following the IMO Guidelines, all perfectly legitimate.

The problem is there are a few “Dodgy Brothers” security companies (mercs if you want) cropping up with questionable qualifications, the purpose of the IMO Guidelines is to address that problem, along with the other details that need nutting out.

And of course the insurance companies (the curse of modern day society) are starting to offer reductions on premiums if the shipowner uses PMSC. It would not surprise me to learn that it is the underwriters of these ships and cargos that are one of the major players putting pressure on the IMO to change its stance on the issue.

And as a ships master, if i had to transit the areas in question i would rest a bit easier with a group of (armed) professionals onboard.

On my own boat i have no need for one.

North - Industry News: IMO Updates on Guidance Relating to Maritime Security | www.nepia.com

[zboss]

Originally Posted by Wavewacker

How do you get through NY or Chicago with guns on board? I realize the states, counties and municipalities don't have custom types upon entry, can you pass through?

My NRA firearms instructor - a secret service agent and the first female US Air marshal - instructed us that if we separate the barrel and slide of the weapon from the grip and place them in different bags it is no longer legally considered "gun" for transportation purposes within the US.

This is apparently how many law enforcement travel with their firearms when off duty. When travelling by air this prevents them from having to put a big red TSA notice on the bag that basically says "steal me".

Utah has a multistate concealed carry license good in 30 states but does not include New York, SC, Del, or NJ on the ICW.

[Nessus]

There's an ex marine chained to a bed in a Mexican prison as we speak. His crime was entering Mexico with an antique shotgun. He was arrested upon declaring the firearm. His parents are being extorted from the prisons inmates as well.

Hammar and his friend were on their way to Costa Rica in August and planned to drive across the Mexican border near Matamoros in a Winnebago filled with surfboards and camping gear. Hammar, 27, asked U.S. border agents what to do with the unloaded shotgun, which his family said belonged to his great-grandfather.

“They examined it, they weighed it, they said you have to fill out this form,” his father, Jon Hammar, told the Associated Press in a phone interview Tuesday from his home near Miami.

But when the pair crossed the border and handed the paperwork to Mexican officials, they impounded the RV and jailed the men, saying it was illegal to carry that type of gun. Hammar’s friend was later released because the gun did not belong to him.

Pathway Executive Director Fred Guzman said he kept in touch with Hammar by text messaging after his discharge, as he does with other veterans. He last heard from Hammar before he headed to Mexico.

Hammar, who enjoys surfing, hiking, music and meditating had planned to go to Costa Rica after traveling with his family to Hawaii, Guzman said.

“It wasn’t an impulse plan to go to Costa Rica,” Guzman said. “That was part of his discharge plan.”

An online petition to get Hammar released is under way.

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The phone call came at midnight from Mexico's notorious CEDES prison, where Jon Hammar Jr. has been held since August. The caller demanded $1,800, then put Hammar on to drive the point home.

"They're serious, Dad," Jon Hammar Sr. heard his son say. "I'll pay you back; they are going to kill me."

"They're serious, Dad. I'll pay you back; they are going to kill me."
- Jon Hammar, Jr., speaking by phone from a Mexican jail

Hammar, who faced down Iraqi insurgents in the final push on Fallujah in 2004, has been in dangerous situations before. But his treatment in the infamous prison, where Mexico's murderous Los Zetas and Gulf drug cartels hold sway, has his family fearing for the 27-year-old's life -- and begging the Obama administration for help. Hammar was arrested in the Mexican border city of Matamoros on Aug. 13, after declaring to a Mexican customs agent that he possessed an antique shotgun he was carrying through the country on his way to Costa Rica, where he and a pal planned to surf and forget the horrors of war that plagued Hammar long after his honorable discharge in 2007.

Hammar could tell his son was under duress. He was fully prepared to pay the ransom, but the caller said he would call back in the morning with a Western Union account number. Hammar found that to be strange.

"You're about to kill my son and you don't even have an account number and you'll call me back?" Hammar said.

Hammar also wondered how the caller got his home number and was able to place the nighttime call. He got hold of a U.S. Consulate official who promised to convey the threat to high-ranking Mexican military officials in the region. No call came from the prison in the morning.

[xymotic]

Originally Posted by IslandHopper

Actually the IMO has significantly softened their approach to the use of private maritime security companies (PMSC) providing privately contracted armed security personnel on board ships transiting high risk areas. While not exactly endorsing there use, they have accepted there is a need for them and have been providing guidance for a couple of years now. China Navigation (CNCo), which comes under the same group of companies that i work for, has used them twice that i know of by following the IMO Guidelines, all perfectly legitimate.

The problem is there are a few “Dodgy Brothers” security companies (mercs if you want) cropping up with questionable qualifications, the purpose of the IMO Guidelines is to address that problem, along with the other details that need nutting out.

And of course the insurance companies (the curse of modern day society) are starting to offer reductions on premiums if the shipowner uses PMSC. It would not surprise me to learn that it is the underwriters of these ships and cargos that are one of the major players putting pressure on the IMO to change its stance on the issue.

And as a ships master, if i had to transit the areas in question i would rest a bit easier with a group of (armed) professionals onboard.

On my own boat i have no need for one.

North - Industry News: IMO Updates on Guidance Relating to Maritime Security | www.nepia.com

OK, but what does this have to do with the actual logistics of it? Is membership in IMO itself the legal authority that allows a weapon to come into a nations waters? Is that by treaty or ??? have 'member governments' agreed to follow IMO's rules and not their own?

[minaret]

Originally Posted by rebel heart

The US had terrible gang violence in the 90s, I highly doubt a single person on this forum was remotely impacted by it. Minus the folks who think every minority in a hoodie is obviously up to no good.

I grew up living in places like Oakland and Flint. Worst places I've ever lived we're east Little Rock and Pine Bluff, AR. Held the record for most violent and most polluted city in the US for most of the 90's. I was definitely impacted, in the literal sense. I attended high school at the notorious Little Rock Central High, of 50's fame. It's still famous for race riots and gang violence. There they give drive-by drills instead of fire drills. I was expelled both years I attended. Very difficult to be a successful student in that environment. It's a good thing the crack epidemic isn't what it once was, I go back to some of the places I used to live and most of them are much improved. I bet plenty of others here have had some exposure too. It's just too prevalent.

[IslandHopper]

Originally Posted by xymotic

OK, but what does this have to do with the actual logistics of it? Is membership in IMO itself the legal authority that allows a weapon to come into a nations waters? Is that by treaty or ??? have 'member governments' agreed to follow IMO's rules and not their own?

Read the guidelines.....the answers to all your questions are there....

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by IslandHopper

Actually the IMO has significantly softened their approach to the use of private maritime security companies (PMSC) providing privately contracted armed security personnel on board ships transiting high risk areas. While not exactly endorsing there use, they have accepted there is a need for them and have been providing guidance for a couple of years now. China Navigation (CNCo), which comes under the same group of companies that i work for, has used them twice that i know of by following the IMO Guidelines, all perfectly legitimate.

The problem is there are a few “Dodgy Brothers” security companies (mercs if you want) cropping up with questionable qualifications, the purpose of the IMO Guidelines is to address that problem, along with the other details that need nutting out.

And of course the insurance companies (the curse of modern day society) are starting to offer reductions on premiums if the shipowner uses PMSC. It would not surprise me to learn that it is the underwriters of these ships and cargos that are one of the major players putting pressure on the IMO to change its stance on the issue.

And as a ships master, if i had to transit the areas in question i would rest a bit easier with a group of (armed) professionals onboard.

On my own boat i have no need for one.

North - Industry News: IMO Updates on Guidance Relating to Maritime Security | www.nepia.com

You missed my quote. I said the IMO does not support arming crews.

Dave

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by xymotic

OK, but what does this have to do with the actual logistics of it? Is membership in IMO itself the legal authority that allows a weapon to come into a nations waters? Is that by treaty or ??? have 'member governments' agreed to follow IMO's rules and not their own?

No. It is not. I know a ships captain that transits this area. They pick them up and drop them off at sea. They are also hiring spetnaz special forces as well or re ting a Russian destroyer as convoy protector.

Dave

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by IslandHopper

Read the guidelines.....the answers to all your questions are there....

The security firms must comply with the flag states firearms rules and if transiting must obey the transits state firearms rules. There has been no relaxation of such rules

Dave

[IslandHopper]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

No. It is not. I know a ships captain that transits this area. They pick them up and drop them off at sea. They are also hiring spetnaz special forces as well or re ting a Russian destroyer as convoy protector.

Dave

Sorry Dave but that is just a blanket statement, the ones used in the two instances i quoted boarded in port and departed by chopper to the nearest airport to be flown back to their departure point, all above board and all with the approval of the flag states involved.....as per the guidelines....there are legitimate ways of doing this these days whether you chose to believe it or not.....

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

The security firms must comply with the flag states firearms rules and if transiting must obey the transits state firearms rules. There has been no relaxation of such rules

Dave

This time you missed my quote....

I never said there had been a relaxing of any rules, what i said in answer to your original post was the IMO has softened there stance on the subject of armed security on merchant vessel, no mention of any flag states.....

Prior to these guidelines the IMO would not even entertain discussing the issue.....it was a no armed anybody on the vessels stance, and that was it.....

The guidelines are for all the parties involved including flag states, but just like you, i am not privy to the negotiations with the flag states to facilitate the proceedings.....

[saltyseadog]

This has all been fascinating and educational if you sail around the globe to other country's but I'm just interested in what the laws are in US waters. Can I bring a pump shotgun and my pistol with me as I sail around ? Or does it depend on state to state laws on gun possession?

[zboss]

Originally Posted by rebel heart

I thought about that, but to do it the right way there's a transfer process and paperwork. And of all the things on my list negotiating the sale of a pistol was on the bottom of my list. Besides, it was mighty symbolic.

Come to virginia next time! Open up your trunk, take out firearm, trade money for firearm... have a good day!

[Zanshin]

Salty - every state has different laws. The best guide is a book entitled 2012 United States Traveler's Guide to the Firearm Laws of the 50 States (Gun Laws for all Fifty States, 16th Edition): J Scott Kappas: 9780972548939: Amazon.com: Books which we always recommended. Although it is geared towards travel by car, the applicable laws are pretty well documented in this guide.