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Old 12-04-2012, 20:52   #1
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Proof of Sailing Competence in the Med

Hi all

Im off to the France in a month to pick up my new boat and plan is to do some commisioning sailing around Spain and France to start with. The boat wil be Australian flagged and Australian skippered but i keep getting conflicting views on what level of competence needs to be documented for Spain in particular.

Ie it seems there are 2 main opinions -

1. as a non eu boat and skipper we just need to comply with laws of the flag we are under at least for the first 90 days. I have an Aussie boat licence so am fine under this option.

2. some spanish officials insist on an ICC equivalent regardless of boat flag. This may or may not be satisfied by the pretty basic Aussie boat licence I have. I never bothered getting any certification beyond competent crew with YA so cant document anything on that side sufficiently i would think?

I understand french officials are more reasonable but would like to hear from anyone with recent eperience as non EU boats in either country without the ICC - how have you gone?

cheers
Barra
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Old 12-04-2012, 20:57   #2
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Re: Proof of Sailing Competence in the Med

We were never questioned in France or Italy 12 months ago or the year prior. Do not know about Spain.

You say you will be Australian flagged, I assume you will have her on the AMSA list of Registered ships. That is very important and we did have to deal with questions about that.
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Old 12-04-2012, 21:00   #3
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Re: Proof of Sailing Competence in the Med

yes had to deregister in france and reregister in Australia - glad the broker undertook to do that for me - looked like a fair amount of trouble. Spains the one that seems to throw up the confusion in the western med at least.
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Old 12-04-2012, 21:04   #4
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Re: Proof of Sailing Competence in the Med

Registration is a chore but saves a whole lot of grief (including in marinas). what is the name of your new boat?
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Old 12-04-2012, 21:27   #5
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Re: Proof of Sailing Competence in the Med

Ia Orana - original name kept as it may make things a little smoother with documentation Im expecting
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Old 13-04-2012, 21:19   #6
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Re: Proof of Sailing Competence in the Med

Barra,

We went through exactly the same situation a couple of years ago. You have to be an EU citizen to get an ICC, so as that was a no-go, we decided that we would like to have a certificate in the document folder that showed some sort of qualification beyond the Australian boat license, and we ended up going for a bareboat skipper and VHF radio course (Which was a lot of fun), and got some nice pretty certificates for the file.
Over that 6 month season in France, Italy, Greece, and Turkey, our documents were checked by various officials four times. Now I couldnít understand exactly what was being said, but from what I could figure out, they didnít care one bit about our sailing qualifications, they just wanted to know if we were EU citizens with a foreign flagged boat trying to avoid VAT! As we didnít fall into that category we had no trouble at all.
(We didnít sail into Spain so canít help you there, and FYI we were told that the Croatian Authorities require a VHF radio operators certificate.)

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Old 15-04-2012, 22:07   #7
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Re: Proof of Sailing Competence in the Med

Barra,

I took the liberty of looking up your new vessel on the AMSA register. It currently shows as not yet registered. We went through this when we bought our boat and could not get it actually on the AMSA register until we put the plaque and name on her bows.

We had a small run in in Corsica with the authorities over the AMSA register when she was noted as yours is presently. The word "confiscated" were uttered by the police !!!

Give me a call if you like 0411 104601

Is it an FP Orana that you have bought?

daniel
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Old 15-04-2012, 23:20   #8
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Re: Proof of Sailing Competence in the Med

Thanks Daniel

Just did the search myself and as I thought I have a ON but process not complete. 2 probs to resolve

1. Oz registry doesnt like french bill of sale so we are going backwards and forwards on that.

2. marking note not yet completed

Hopefully this will all be sorted before im over there in 3 weeks otherwise the ICC will be the least of my worries eh!

Barra
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Old 15-04-2012, 23:21   #9
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Re: Proof of Sailing Competence in the Med

PS Phisa 42 was the purchase
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Old 15-04-2012, 23:24   #10
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Re: Proof of Sailing Competence in the Med

thanks burls good advice - i will pad the folder out with some random certificates - i have YA Competent Crew and if i had bothered to keep a log could probably apply for the coastal skipper certificate but i didnt. still they are both blue cards so maybe good enuff if on the random occassion i do get a nazi...
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Old 16-04-2012, 02:33   #11
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Hi Barra,
We picked our boat up in France almost 2 years ago and have cruised in France, Spain and the UK almost continuously since then. With only a long expired NSW boat licence, I got an ICC whilst in the UK but have not been asked, especially when it becomes clear we are Australian and not British flagged. To date, I have only been asked for registration, insurance and passports. Good luck with the bureaucracy . You should also be aware of another possible hold up - that AMSA will only accept the original marking note and will not accept a faxed copy as proof of marking. I paid extra to have the papers couriered to France to save time. Happy sailing.
Gary
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Old 16-04-2012, 11:19   #12
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Make sure you have a French deflagging cert or she will continue to show up on that registry.

iCC are now available to all nationalities , ie those that do not issue ICC. The RYa and the ISA have been designated to provide such certs

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Old 16-04-2012, 17:10   #13
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Re: Proof of Sailing Competence in the Med

Hey Barra,

Have you spoken to anyone in AMSA?

I had a number of conversations with Trish Malone who is actually the Registrar of Ships. she was very helpful.
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Old 16-04-2012, 18:38   #14
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Re: Proof of Sailing Competence in the Med

Gary - thanks thats comforting news. Original marking note in the post to AMSA so that shouldnt be the hold up

Dave - yep she is deregistered in france and actually you cant reregister in Oz unless you can prove that first

Daniel - seem to have a reasonable and helpful contact at AMSA but he is stuggling with the french bill of sale. As best i can understand it he is taking isse with the tense used in the french contract ie " i will own the boat" not "i own the boat" is the technical translation. the fact the french authorities have deregistered the boat and issued the certificate stating i am the owner doesnt seem to wash
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Old 16-04-2012, 20:08   #15
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Re: Proof of Sailing Competence in the Med

indeed !!

I would try Trish. She is the boss.
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