Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 12-04-2015, 09:06   #16
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 5
Re: Phuket! I have "Right of Way"

This CG skipper nailed it friends Stand on vessel has the right of way.

<bunch of other rules removed before and after>

But the ONE rule that overrides ALL the other rules:

As Captain you must take *ANY NECESSARY ACTION* to avoid a collision, even if it breaks some or all of the other rules. If not, *YOU* are liable for the collision (and the other idiot, too, of course).
______________
__________________

__________________
dalewils is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2015, 09:29   #17
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 26
Re: Phuket! I have "Right of Way"

Lesson learned. One can be the Stand On Vessel, all the way until the hull you are standing on sinks below the water.

Really, as to collisions, two words apply. Avoid them!

What is it with skippers wanting to occupy the same hole in the water at the same time?

We do not yet live in a world of autonomous vehicles.
__________________

__________________
Montanan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2015, 10:56   #18
Registered User
 
oregoncycle's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Hood River
Boat: 1983 Pan Oceanic 38
Posts: 57
Images: 3
Re: Phuket! I have "Right of Way"

Unless something has changed Comparative Negligence was something
that was repeated many times during my classes for my captains license. It went something like ' unless you are tied to a dock or at a proper anchor then you are partly responsible for an accident even if you had the right of way if you failed to take proper action to avoid a collision.
__________________
oregoncycle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2015, 12:05   #19
med
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 186
Re: Phuket! I have "Right of Way"

Quote:
Originally Posted by nekkidsailin View Post
I am a USCG licensed Captain and the ColRegs are *very* Clear:

Stand on vessel has the right of way.

<bunch of other rules removed before and after>

But the ONE rule that overrides ALL the other rules:

As Captain you must take *ANY NECESSARY ACTION* to avoid a collision, even if it breaks some or all of the other rules. If not, *YOU* are liable for the collision (and the other idiot, too, of course).
No where in the colregs does it say that.
There is no such thing as right of way.
med is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2015, 12:41   #20
Senior Cruiser
 
mikereed100's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Santa Barbara
Boat: 46' custom cat
Posts: 1,572
Images: 2
Re: Phuket! I have "Right of Way"

It is naive to assume that a Thai tour boat operator has any knowledge or respect for rules of navigation. When we were sailing in those waters I always assumed that they were drunk, blind, incompetent and homicidal. As such we always gave them a wide berth and never had any problems.
__________________
Mike

www.sailblogs.com/member/rumdoxy

Come to the dark side. We have cookies.
mikereed100 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2015, 12:46   #21
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Isla Saboga, Las Perlas, Panama
Boat: 1994 Hunter 37.5
Posts: 163
Re: Phuket! I have "Right of Way"

Quote:
Originally Posted by med View Post
No where in the colregs does it say that.
There is no such thing as right of way.
Yes, the idea of right of way needs to go away, as it tends to make the stand-on vessel think he has no responsibility for avoiding the collision.

As I interpret it, if you are the stand-on vessel, you are required to maintain your course and speed. If you are the give-way vessel, you are required to alter your course or speed. But, both vessels are equally responsible for doing everything they can to avoid a collision.

The instant it becomes clear that the give-way vessel has not done what it needs to do, your responsibility as the stand-on vessel is now to get the hell out of the way. You are still the stand-on vessel, but failing to make any attempt to avoid a crash makes you just as at-fault as the other guy.
__________________
oldjags is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2015, 13:07   #22
Registered User
 
TeddyDiver's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Arctic Ocean
Boat: Under construction 35' ketch
Posts: 1,826
Images: 2
Re: Phuket! I have "Right of Way"

One diver aboard the diving vessel has opened up on her FB account and says the article is full of BS..
__________________
TeddyDiver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2015, 14:26   #23
Registered User
 
oregoncycle's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Hood River
Boat: 1983 Pan Oceanic 38
Posts: 57
Images: 3
Re: Phuket! I have "Right of Way"

Quote:
Originally Posted by oregoncycle View Post
Unless something has changed Comparative Negligence was something
that was repeated many times during my classes for my captains license. It went something like ' unless you are tied to a dock or at a proper anchor then you are partly responsible for an accident even if you had the right of way if you failed to take proper action to avoid a collision.
We use the term 'right of way' as it is implied in the rules that under sail a vessel under power must give way to a sailboat. Now there are many exceptions and the best one is tonnage rules!
__________________
oregoncycle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2015, 15:21   #24
Registered User
 
Rustic Charm's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Boat: Bieroc 36 foot Ketch
Posts: 4,898
Re: Phuket! I have "Right of Way"

Quote:
Originally Posted by oregoncycle View Post
We use the term 'right of way' as it is implied in the rules that under sail a vessel under power must give way to a sailboat. Now there are many exceptions and the best one is tonnage rules!
There is nothing wrong with your understanding or use with 'right of way'. But this is CF which has its own agenda in wanting the term to cease being used. I think it comes from the U.S. coast guard and some very dogmatic persons on CF. Throughout the rest of the world 'right of way' continues to be used. And there is nothing wrong with the term as long as it's understood as not being an absolute. But prepared for a lot of crap on CF attacking your credibility, professionalism etc etc, for using the term.

Vietnam is similar to Thailand by the sounds of it. There is very little following or understand any marine regulations there that I observed. And that was by commercial vessels too. It was 'biggest and quickest' has right of way.
__________________
Rustic Charm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2015, 16:11   #25
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Wherever the wind takes me
Boat: Bristol 41.1
Posts: 809
Re: Phuket! I have "Right of Way"

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldjags View Post
Yes, the idea of right of way needs to go away, as it tends to make the stand-on vessel think he has no responsibility for avoiding the collision.

As I interpret it, if you are the stand-on vessel, you are required to maintain your course and speed. If you are the give-way vessel, you are required to alter your course or speed. But, both vessels are equally responsible for doing everything they can to avoid a collision.

The instant it becomes clear that the give-way vessel has not done what it needs to do, your responsibility as the stand-on vessel is now to get the hell out of the way. You are still the stand-on vessel, but failing to make any attempt to avoid a crash makes you just as at-fault as the other guy.
"the idea of right of way needs to go away" NOT!

And it is you who so artfully makes the argument.

Per the rules, the vessel primarily responsible for altering speed/course is the give way vessel. This makes the most sense, in that it makes some effort to avoid both vessels changing course such that they steer into each other while trying to avoid a collision. And if the give way vessel does not react properly, the stand on vessel must take action to avoid collision. All very simple and clear cut. Spelled out clearly in Steering and Sailing Rules 11-18.

That notwithstanding, in this instance I find fault with the sailboat. Operating under autopilot, it is my opinion that one should never leave the wheel when operating in sight of another vessel.

When the operation of the powerboat became a concern the sailboat should have disengaged the pilot first. Operating in traffic requires full attention of the skipper. When the first alarm signals were issued the sailboat should have prepared to alter course, not just resound the horn signals when the give way vessel continued speed and course.

It is more important to be safe than to be right!

As to the skipper of the powerboat leaving the scene -
It is his duty to render aid.
To throw someone off his boat is tantamount to attempted murder.
I would throw his a** into jail for a long time and seize his vessel.
__________________
redsky49 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2015, 16:28   #26
Senior Cruiser
 
senormechanico's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2003
Boat: Dragonfly 1000 trimaran
Posts: 5,827
Re: Phuket! I have "Right of Way"

Phuket!
I'm not going there to sail.
I thought, "Rent a Bayliner" captains were the worst, but now I'll count my relative blessings !



__________________
Memento,homo, quia pulvis es, et in pulverem reverteris.
senormechanico is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2015, 16:37   #27
Registered User
 
Rustic Charm's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Boat: Bieroc 36 foot Ketch
Posts: 4,898
Re: Phuket! I have "Right of Way"

[QUOTE=redsky49;1799303]"the idea of right of way needs to go away" NOT!

And it is you who so artfully makes the argument.

Per the rules, the vessel primarily responsible for altering speed/course is the give way vessel. This makes the most sense, in that it makes some effort to avoid both vessels changing course such that they steer into each other while trying to avoid a collision. And if the give way vessel does not react properly, the stand on vessel must take action to avoid collision. All very simple and clear cut. Spelled out clearly in Steering and Sailing Rules 11-18.

That notwithstanding, in this instance I find fault with the sailboat. Operating under autopilot, it is my opinion that one should never leave the wheel when operating in sight of another vessel.

QUOTE]

I'm with you. But just wait until some of the American/Canadian guru's wake up to this and they will be down on you like a tonne of bricks.
__________________
Rustic Charm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2015, 17:04   #28
Registered User
 
american's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Shanghai, China
Boat: 1986 Tosca 36'
Posts: 113
Send a message via Skype™ to american
Re: Phuket! I have "Right of Way"

Quote:
Originally Posted by TeddyDiver View Post
One diver aboard the diving vessel has opened up on her FB account and says the article is full of BS..
I was guessing the story from the other boat was going to be very different.

Can you link to her page or provide some quotes?
__________________
-american
http://sv-synchronicity.com/
american is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2015, 17:09   #29
Eternal Member
 
monte's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Australia
Boat: Lagoon 400
Posts: 3,650
Images: 1
Re: Phuket! I have "Right of Way"

American/Canadian, it doesn't matter where you're from. The only people that continue to cite right of way as being part of the COLREGS are from Ignoramusville (or maybe Tassie )
__________________
monte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2015, 18:18   #30
Registered User
 
oregoncycle's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Hood River
Boat: 1983 Pan Oceanic 38
Posts: 57
Images: 3
Re: Phuket! I have "Right of Way"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
There is nothing wrong with your understanding or use with 'right of way'. But this is CF which has its own agenda in wanting the term to cease being used. I think it comes from the U.S. coast guard and some very dogmatic persons on CF. Throughout the rest of the world 'right of way' continues to be used. And there is nothing wrong with the term as long as it's understood as not being an absolute. But prepared for a lot of crap on CF attacking your credibility, professionalism etc etc, for using the term.

Vietnam is similar to Thailand by the sounds of it. There is very little following or understand any marine regulations there that I observed. And that was by commercial vessels too. It was 'biggest and quickest' has right of way.
They are going for an uphill battle as a simple Google search shows the use by some very creditable organizations and is part of the language used in Oregon's Marine Laws. Here is a small sample of folks they will need to start with and they can cross me off their list as I will quit using the term unless asked by the Oregon Marine Patrol..
Boat US - Online Boating Safety Study Guide
Whenever you meet another boat, it's like approaching an unmarked intersection in your car. Knowing a few, simple right of way rules will help you avoid a ...
American Boating Association:Bigger vessels have right of ...
https://americanboating.org/bigger_on_the_water.asp
... it from either the US Government Printing Office or at your local marine supplier. ... in the code, goes like this: "The heavier vessel always has the right-of-way.".
Boating Definitions and Mnemonics
fmg-www.cs.ucla.edu/.../mnemonic...
University of California, Los Angeles
The running lights and the right-of-way rules are arranged so that if you see another boat's port (red) running light and there is no other rule to tell you what to do, ...
Oregon Boating Regulations - Oregon.gov
www.oregon.gov/OSMB/BoatLaws/pages/regulations.aspx
Oregon
Marine Patrols. A boat approaching or being ... Note: Having the right-of-way does not allow the operator to endanger others. Boat traffic lanes. (ORS 830.345).
Basic boat traffic rules: (ORS 830.340)
  • Meeting head-on — Except when risk of collision exists, boaters must bear right and pass on the other boat's left side.
  • Crossing — When approaching at an angle, the boat on the right side has right-of-way.
  • Passing — A boat may overtake another boat on either side, but must grant right-of-way to the boat that is overtaken.
  • Boats proceeding downriver have right-of-way over boats proceeding upriver. Note: Having the right-of-way does not allow the operator to endanger others.

Us power squadrons
captnmike.com/2009/10/07/marine-rules-of-the-road/
Oct 7, 2009 - The “Stand on Vessel” (the one that has the Right of Way) is required to
__________________

__________________
oregoncycle is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Crew Wanted: Phuket to Phuket mausgras Crew Archives 1 01-06-2013 05:44
Crew Wanted: Phuket to Phuket mausgras Crew Archives 5 14-11-2012 23:05
Police Rule " Suicide " on Phuket Yacht Death cat man do General Sailing Forum 10 24-12-2011 23:16
Which Catamaran is Right for You, Right for Me? betachz Multihull Sailboats 28 01-01-2009 11:23
no right way, right? unbusted67 Seamanship & Boat Handling 4 16-12-2006 19:10



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:55.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.