Permit regulations by country

[xpfenech]

Hi,

I would like to initiate a comparison on recerational boating permit regulation per country.


1- How long does it take to have a permit to be able to sail a boat (No size and miles limit)? Many countries do not require a permit (US, France), while others require a huge investment of time to prepare exams ( For example, Spain)...

2- How much does it cost to obtain the permit?

3- Captain license for chartering a boat?

4- Taxes (purchase, anual)

The ideal is that we have a comparison per coutry on this issue. This is not a post to discuss about whether requiring or not a permit is good for sailors, but a post that aims to have an objective comparison of conditions for sailors in different countries.

So here I start with a few countries:

USA
Licence: No licence required except for Alabama.
Captain USCG requred for charter.
Taxes: different states have different registration taxes. From 0% up to a 6%. Yearly tax? BoatUS - Government Affairs - State Boating Information Home

What about your country?

ARG
AUS
CRO
CZE
DEN
FIN
FRA
GER
GRE
IRL
ITA
JPN
NED
NZL
NOR
POL
RSA
ESP
SWE
SUI
TUR
GBR
...


Thanks,

[Boracay]

OK, for Australia:-

1- How long does it take to have a permit to be able to sail a boat (No size and miles limit)? Many countries do not require a permit (US, France), while others require a huge investment of time to prepare exams ( For example, Spain)...

Recreational sailboats in general do not require an operators' license. Powerboats do

2- How much does it cost to obtain the permit?

Sailboats N/A Powerboats - see link.

3- Captain license for chartering a boat?

You'd need a Certificate of Competency.

4- Taxes (purchase, annual)

The same taxes as apply to all purchases (mainly GST).
Registration Fees are shown at the bottom of this page.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by Boracay

OK, for Australia:-
Recreational sailboats in general do not require an operators' license. Powerboats do
Sailboats N/A Powerboats - see link.
You'd need a Certificate of Competency.
The same taxes as apply to all purchases (mainly GST).
Registration Fees are shown at the bottom of this page.

Hmm... This is a bit tricky for AUS as each state has it's own regulations.
For instance, above post is for New South Wales. Most states require an operators licence if vessel has an engine fitted (usually if more than 5 HP); cost varies considerably.

[goboatingnow]

You need to be more specific , are you talking exclusively sailboats , sailboats with engines , etc.


Dave

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, xpfenech.

[T.Treffery]

If say a person has a boat operators licence in on country (ie south australia) does that mean you are licensed in other countries. I know with car licenses that if you are licenced over seas you are legally ablt to drive a car in australia. Does the same apply for boating.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by T.Treffery

If say a person has a boat operators licence in on country (ie south australia) does that mean you are licensed in other countries. I know with car licenses that if you are licenced over seas you are legally ablt to drive a car in australia. Does the same apply for boating.

You need an International Certificate of Competence, ICC. Or that is what I think you need. I can get one by showing my national permit and giving some money. That was many years ago so things change but it gives an idea of what to expect. I never needed any of the documents I have; nobody ever asked for anything... in the 35 years that I have them and sail.

[Kettlewell]

Many states within the USA now require safety certificates to operate power craft, not just Alabama. It is different in each state. For example, even if you are from out of state you need one in New Jersey, but in many states that is only required below a certain age. Other states require nothing. Many states allow you to take an online course and exam, but New York State requires you to take a day-long, in-person course and exam. Costs range from about $20-$50 I believe. They are heavily oriented towards small, open motorboats, which is where most people die so that makes sense.

[jckb]

Hi xpfenech, welcome!

That's a very good question, with no easy answer.

I have worked with, then set up and ran charter organisations and sail teaching establishments in many European countries over the last 50 years. During this period I've watched the evolution of regulations controlling leisure sailing in the sea areas around Europe, and attempt to summarise what's going on in my Europe Cruising Guide (jimbsail.info)

International regulations hardly touch leisure cruising if you're under 24m LOA, or less that 500 tons gross wt. And mainly they only affect sailing outside territorial waters (usually 12nm offshore). However, attempts are being made to allow internationally recognised certificates of competence for these smaller vessels - the "ICC" already referred to. However, once inside territorial waters, the local country rules . . .

Fromhttp://jimbsail.info/going-foreign/docs-and-VAT

When you are sailing from port to port in another country, that country's regulations apply to you and your boat. However, in a spirit of good will, very few countries will apply their own equipment or qualification requirements to visiting foreign registered yachts. However, from time to time some zealous official may insist on some local regulation being enforced. When we hear about these events, we publish them. Keep us up to date by adding a comment if this happens to you . . .

The rest of that section - "Going Foreign" - summarises what I know about regulation within the waters around Europe. Since I'm a Brit, it's from the UK point of view. But I've tried wherever possible to include issues which affect non-European registered boats visiting European waters.

Now, issues affecting Boats is one thing - generally a customs matter.

Completely separate, and therefore rather confusing, are issues affecting people - immigration matters.

These affect how long anyone may stay in any individual country . . . not really a boating matter at all. But it very much affects individuals who cruise extensively in boats.

So, on this subject there are sub-headings for each country (as you've suggested). And as others have pointed out, within federated countries, there are sub-heads for individual states (US, Oz), and in Europe, for instance, groups of countries get together to agree common procedures (European Union for customs matters, Schengen Zone for immigration matters).

However, these are shifting sands, and the officials in many places are often ill-trained, so just apply their own proximate ideas of what should be done. So "the regulations" and "practice" sometimes differ widely.

The page quoted carries on with a range of sub-headings:

Boat's Documents
Personal Documents
Entering another Country by Sea
Waste Discharge
VAT and Boat Import
Special Customs Territories Linked to the EU
Other Certificates
Customs Controlled Items

Is this the type of thing you were looking for?

And, more important, what's missing, and how can it be improved?

(Incidentally, you won't be able to see the comments added by other site contributors unless you register with the site)

[goboatingnow]

Just to be clear in Europe, only one country actually mandates having a certificate of competency, and that is Croatia. If your own country requires certification , that certificate is sufficient for all countries in the EU ( including Croatia , as it accepts virtually everything )

Several countries may seek. In the absence of a national certificate ,an ICC , but the legal basis for this is questionable , as several such countries that do ( Greece and Portugal) are sometimes not even signatories to the resolution 40. Hence they have no legal basis to recognise ICCs. Often this is just local officials. The reason they are not signatories is in doing so they would invalidate their own national program's , which are often different or stricter. ( however there is some talk of a standard EU wide certification, that maybe mandatory ) as the Croatian certification requirement is under doubt for EU boats once Croatia is in the EU.

The ICC is specifically required along with the CEVNI extensions exam , to cruise Europes inland waterways.


And Jim, the EU is a federated state , laws come from the centre to the constituents since the Single European Act. ( even if the Brits jump up and down from time to time ) it has a central administration and parliament , however imperfect the whole thing is. Individual state law is subservient to EU law , and a secession process has to be taken should one want to leave ( in fact there isn't even a legal basis for leaving at present)

I notice you never refer to the EU properly , too much time in Eurosceptic land maybe. Its certainly well beyond " countries coming together.... Etc "


Dave

[xpfenech]

Thnak you for all the replies,

according to what I know, each boat has its own nationality and it is ruled by its (country of origin) rules, no matter where it sails. Then, each country has its rules for foreign boats and their own boats.

Here, what I am more interested is on those rules that somehow change the game for those local citizens living in a particular country. That is, although I find very interesting and relevant the question on how to sail on foreign country waters, the issue I am trying to grasp is: how in each different country, their citizens have it easier o harder to be able to experience sailing or professional sailing.

So, here are some data I would like to share, and I would like ask you to comment on it. On whether you think it is a good estimate of the reality in each of your countries.

For each different flag in their own country:

USA
Licence: No licence required except for Alabama. safety course required in 42 states.
Captain USCG requred for charter.
Taxes: different states have different registration taxes. From 0% up to a 6%. Yearly tax? BoatUS - Government Affairs - State Boating Information Home
BoatUS - Government Affairs - State Boating Information Home

for Australia:-
Recreational sailboats in general do not require an operators' license. Powerboats do
Sailboats N/A Powerboats - see link.
You'd need a Certificate of Competency.
The same taxes as apply to all purchases (mainly GST).
Registration Fees are shown at the bottom of this page.

Spain
Licence: Licence required both of sailboats and motorboats. Expensive and long courses.

To charter a boat: A long course and sailing 24 months before able to have professional title. (patron de cabotaje). Alternative: merchant marine university title..

Taxes: 16% of the price (4% second hand) and 12 % matriculation and several anual taxes (port usage, safety inspections, etc...): Tributación por la adquisición de una embarcación de recreo - Tributación - Náutica de recreo - Marina mercante - Áreas de actividad - Ministerio de Fomento
Coment: the rules of the game for spaniards are not too fair...

France

Licence: only required for motor boats. Common sense exam
For charter: A professional permit required.
Taxes: Sales taxed and Anually taxed: Boat rghts and motor rights. It dependes on the sizes. Shttp://www.linternaute.com/argent/impots/impots-en-2012/les-bateaux-de-plaisance.shtml

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permis...u_de_plaisance

Belgium

License: Not required
For charter: ?
Taxes: sales tax for new boats. Small fee for flag.

Netherlands:

License: license required. Not too diffult too obtain.
For charter: ?
Taxes: ?

NZL:

License: not required
For charter: certificate of competence.
Taxes: ?

I find it interesting because each country has different rules for their home citizens, and seems to me that those countries that have cheaper obligations (time and money) have developed the reacreational boat industry, and those that have more expensive obligations, are lagging much behind.

[Dockhead]

UK:

License: none
Registration & documentation: none whatsoever required in UK waters
VAT: currently 20%; must be paid once in the boat's lifetime
Taxes: none

[goboatingnow]

UK:

License: none
Registration & documentation: none whatsoever required in UK waters
VAT: currently 20%; must be paid once in the boat's lifetime
Taxes: none

Err, required Ships Radio License, Operator radio license GMDSS log ( if radio fitted, or you have a radar, AIS or any marine comms stuff)

Solas V requirements are UK law ( hence you need some on board documentation)

VAT can be paid several times in certain circumstances as its not an asset tax.

UK BA advice on yachts returning to the UK. ( which is actually mandatory), but at least we dodged e-borders.

dave

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Err, required Ships Radio License, Operator radio license GMDSS log ( if radio fitted, or you have a radar, AIS or any marine comms stuff)

Solas V requirements are UK law ( hence you need some on board documentation)

VAT can be paid several times in certain circumstances as its not an asset tax.

UK BA advice on yachts returning to the UK. ( which is actually mandatory), but at least we dodged e-borders.

dave

We were talking about boats, not radios

If you want to keep going, you can mention that the unfortunate Brits must have passports to go abroad, too. You don't get away with no documentation, just regarding the boat Nor no taxes, unfortunately. And you have to register for the NHS . . . and as of today, if you run a restaurant, you can't serve olive oil in a dish -- you have to serve it in a one-portion sealed container -- latest EU ruling -- sorry I left all that out in my original answer!

But the boat, qua boat, is free of documentary requirements, as is the skipper, qua skipper (if not, unfortunately qua UK citizen ), and all of that is tax free after VAT has been paid, and all of that is very cool, compared to what the rest of the boating world suffers ...

[goboatingnow]

But the boat, qua boat, is free of documentary requirement

Well OK , smarty SOLAS V documentation then

dave