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Old 10-11-2012, 17:54   #31
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Re: Paperwork for Parrots

Well, that would be a "vanity clip" and it is not recommended by avian veterinarians in modern practice for a number of reasons but I won't get into it because it is beyond the scope of this forum. I'd love to debate it further if anybody wants to privately message me. I own an avian veterinary practice so I recognize the husbandry of parrots is a matter of personal experience and medical expertise. Suffice it to say we all love our parrots and do the best by them that we know how. That being said, doing right by my parrots involves a fair amount of, er, real estate, so I'm particularly interested in how Tori makes it work with large birds on a 26 foot sailboat. Mine have a sleep room, a playroom, an outside room and flight room so it's going to be an adjustment to go from 3000 square feet to 300. I would give up boating before I gave up parrothood so I'd love to make it work with both if someone can show me how. Thanks for the input!
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Old 10-11-2012, 23:31   #32
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Avian medical practice. I would have to acknowledge your studies to be deeper than mine as just a friend to Macaws.

The term, vanity clip is a hoot. Who came up with that? Sounds a little like naming Greenland and Iceland to fool the passersby folks.

Why do people treat their birds differently than a pet Maltese?

If you could never never never never trust your Maltese, or Poodle to not run away, I mean out of your hands two seconds, and the dog runs off to escape from you, you would turn the pet owner over to the aspca to make sure the pet is being treated well. Right?

Why is it, with birds, we assume they cannot be trusted to be a willing companion?

As an avian vet, the utter last thing under the sun you would like to see is a complete ban on keeping exotic birds as pets. I would assume.

As a bird fancier, I think we as pet lovers mean well, but our efforts to help are misguided and almost always not in the best interest of the birds, in the case of large exotics.

The largest animal auction in the world takes place in Missouri four times a year. Every creature you can imagine walks, crawls, slitherers, flies, hops through that place.

I have been to that sale several times, and it is amazing the creatures people keep as pets.

One year, in the pens, someone turned loose a full sized camel in a run I was walking in. Suddenly I was confronted with a pissed several ton beast who ran up to me, and started to stomp me into the ground. This creature made a Clydesdale look like a family pet. I just looked him in the eyes, and the foot that was headed for my face, at the last instant, redirected, and he stomped by me, as the ground shook. A guy holding a huge stick then ran by, saying I was very lucky, and should get out before the camel comes back.

I would gladly donate my flock to the wilds of South America, if that were possible.
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Old 12-11-2012, 19:10   #33
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First of all let me qualify myself for what my reply will be.

I have owned parrots for over twenty years.
I am a certified veterinary technician.
I am a certified avian (among other species) behaviorist.
I am the district manager of a large pet healthcare company.
I have personally "rescued" and rehomed over fifty parrots.
Until I moved onto the boat I fostered and educated for a 501 3 c avian rescue.
I teach avian behavior and socialization classes.
I think I may speak as an expert.

It doesn't matter what you call it a trim or clip the terms are interchangeable. This was not a thread on trimming vs flighted birds that is a very personal decision. That being said the average pet owner cannot deal with a flighted bird especially a large bird due to dominance and behavior problems. In addition more birds die and are lost each year due to accidental escapes than anything else besides poor nutrition. I suggest most pet owners keep their pet birds wings clipped for safety sake I do not suggest they do it I advise their veterinarian or an avian groomer do it since yes you are correct it can be done wrong and cause harm.
A properly trimmed bird can fly down and land without crashing but they cannot get good height and usually this prevents escapes. Cosmetic or vanity trims are popular but actually the outside primaries then do not have the support of the other feathers and can be injured.
Wing trims if done correctly rarely cause behavior problems. As to grounding most birds are not in good enough shape to fly anyway. This is sad but true.
All I am doing is trying to provide insight for those who do not wish to rehome their parrots and integrate them into living on a boat safely and comfortably. I have met very few people who have more than one bird on a boat and most are in a traditional cage in the cabin or on a much larger boat. With the size of some boats or multiple big birds this isn't feasible. Being that my birds are outdoors 90 percent of the time they are absolutely trimmed I do not want to lose one ( I did years ago to an escape) nor have to climb somebody's mast to retrieve a wayward macaw. I have retrieved birds from trees, roofs and telephone poles and had the fire department get me and a macaw out of a 90 foot tree. I also had to hire a tree trimmer to scale a tree to get a bird. I know all of the pros and cons of flighted vs trimmed birds. I advise trimmed for most people who have birds.
This also wasn't a discussion on keeping them as pets. No they aren't domesticated, yes they are wonderful but they are in captivity and that isn't going to change and since they cannot survive on their own in most instances and most of us cannot afford aviaries then we have to do the best we can.
Yes parrots can live on tiny boats, outdoors and cage free. They must have protection from predation and weather, they must have their wings trimmed to prevent escape, they must be acclimated to outdoors and trained to self rescue in the event of falling overboard. Some parrots may not be able to transition just like some dogs or cats. A very fearful or aggressive bird would have a lot of problems in close quarters. All this being said my parrots are happier than they were on land they get more handling and daily interaction and even my shy Amazon has become more handleable and out going. Above all they are healthy and as close to free as possible while still being safe.

I respect everyone who owns parrots and takes proper care of them it is expensive and can be challenging. However sharing our lives with them and enabling others to do the same is a wonderful thing.

Regards
Tori
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Old 13-11-2012, 08:55   #34
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Old 13-11-2012, 09:43   #35
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Re: Paperwork for Parrots

Well, I would say I'm pretty much in complete agreement with Tori on everything - I really didn't want the thread to digress on the subject of husbandry or behavior but rather doing proper service to husbandry and behavior on a boat. Thank you everyone for your encouragement in this regard especially Tori. I agree that mine are happiest when they are in the same room with me and what better place to do that than a boat? Thinking more on it, they pretty much are content to stay put unless I walk away and then they start cruising the floor, chewing and getting into trouble.
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