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View Poll Results: Which vessel is the Stand on vessel in the scenario of this post
Boat in front 43 97.73%
Boat with side-tow behind 1 2.27%
Voters: 44. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-07-2014, 23:22   #1
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Overtaking Vessel Wanting you to Speed Up

I would like to hear opinions on the following situation.

Place: Main narrow channel in a marina
Rules: International
My boat: pleasure craft sailboat under power (so a power boat) about 40 ft
Boat directly behind me: pleasure craft power boat, about 40 ft with a side tow of his smaller power boat (about 20 ft or less).

Situation:

I am motoring in the channel at a safe speed. As you go down the main channel it is important to check that boats are not coming out of the side channels where the slips are located since there is limited visibility into those channels. This was a very busy day at the marina too.

As I go down the channel a power boat about the same size as my boat comes up directly behind me. He has a side tow of his smaller boat. He calls out to say speed up. I did not feel it safe to speed up so I said no. I told him that I am the stand on vessel. Since it was not easy to communicate over engine noise I help up my radio and told him to contact me there if needed. He did not.

He once again repeated his request and again I refused to speed up.

It looked like he had no problems at all maneuvering at the speed I was going.

Once docked he told me that since he was towing in a narrow channel he felt he was the stand on vessel.

I maintain that since I was directly in front I was the stand on vessel.

I also feel that just because he had a vessel tied to his side does not make him a vessel engaged in towing. If his definition was used then every pleasure boat towing a dinghy behind them would be a vessel engaged in towing.

When I mentioned rule 13 he said that did not apply since he wasn't overtaking me. I maintain that rule rule 13 defines his boat as the overtaking vessel even if overtaking is not his intent and that I should or could maintain course and speed.

OK folks, Have at it and let me know what you think.
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Old 06-07-2014, 23:31   #2
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Re: Overtaking vessel wanting you to speed up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saltysailor2 View Post

Once docked he told me that since he was towing in a narrow channel he felt he was the stand on vessel.

I maintain that since I was directly in front I was the stand on vessel.
I think technically he was the "a&&hole vessel" and you were the "get-the-hell-outta-the-way-vessel"
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Old 06-07-2014, 23:51   #3
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Re: Overtaking vessel wanting you to speed up

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Originally Posted by Ex-Calif View Post
I think technically he was the "a&&hole vessel" and you were the "get-the-hell-outta-the-way-vessel"
That sums it up exactly.

No point trying to educate those wankers.
Semenship is the closest they will ever come to understanding safe speed and is a by product of their inflated egos..
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Old 07-07-2014, 00:13   #4
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Re: Overtaking vessel wanting you to speed up

we are in the Med and they have to have a license over here to drive a boat and i am opposed to that in the usa but the more of stories like this and the crazyness in the boating world in the usa - 4 dead in miami 2 dead in texas - it makes me take a second thought to that --

we were asked for our license in Italy as we were checking out and it created a bit of an issue - not a big one but a little one -- and the coast guard said if i go to usa i have to have a license to drive a car but not a boat? is that correct"? i said yes and he just had a lot of trouble understanding that

this guy is just an idiot and we saw a lot of that in miami and nc - the worse was boats coming in for a weigh in and almost swamped a small sailboat coming in - total disregard for safety

i am not in favor of more gov't intervention but someplace along the line the nonsense has to cease
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Old 07-07-2014, 01:17   #5
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Re: Overtaking vessel wanting you to speed up

No posted speed in the marina channel?
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Old 07-07-2014, 04:09   #6
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Re: Overtaking vessel wanting you to speed up

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Saltysailor2.
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Old 07-07-2014, 04:37   #7
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Re: Overtaking vessel wanting you to speed up

Nothing wrong with asking you nicely to speed up....I tow as a job in close quarters all the time and a little help can go a long way...but he can't force you to do so under rule 9 (my way of thinking)....

When using rule 9...towing is irrelevant as there is no RAM the way I understand manueverabilty issues...just +/- 20M. (and then you have the crossers and obstructers)
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Old 07-07-2014, 04:55   #8
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pirate Re: Overtaking vessel wanting you to speed up

Good Call... courtesy should never over ride safety..it does no favours..
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Old 07-07-2014, 05:00   #9
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Re: Overtaking vessel wanting you to speed up

From your description, you were in the right.
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Old 07-07-2014, 05:35   #10
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Re: Overtaking vessel wanting you to speed up

"safe speed" and "It looked like he had no problems at all maneuvering" are vauge statments. Was the other boat also sail? Were you traveling well below 6 knots, on the edge of stearage perhaps? Was the smaller vessel being towed or pushing?

It sounds like he needed to wait, but need more details.

Why this reaction? I spent some time yesterday behind a very timid sailor that seemed to think the slower he went the safer he would be, even though the channel had a strong tide. Though I was fine (twin screws) a number of boats were put in some hazard by his slow speed.

It isn't all rules. Some of it is conditions and planning. For example, in the above case the sailor should have waited for slack tide if he was not good in close quarters.
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Old 07-07-2014, 06:01   #11
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Re: Overtaking vessel wanting you to speed up

Quote:
Originally Posted by thinwater View Post
"safe speed" and "It looked like he had no problems at all maneuvering" are vauge statments. Was the other boat also sail? Were you traveling well below 6 knots, on the edge of stearage perhaps? Was the smaller vessel being towed or pushing?

It sounds like he needed to wait, but need more details.
Agree. More details needed (by the way thinwater, it was a power boat, see post #1)

I can imagine extenuating circumstances. One possible example: If you were going very , very slowly and the power boat had a flying bridge with a lot of windage and there was a crosswind making control difficult for the powerboat then I think a request for more speed might have been justified. I could probably imagine a few other scenarios.

So how fast were you going? Any wind or current in the channel? Other traffic? How wide was the channel?

Or, the guy could have just been an impatient jerk in a hurry.
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Old 07-07-2014, 06:15   #12
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Re: Overtaking vessel wanting you to speed up

^^ Also, if you don't want to sit in a no-steerage pickle (for example near a bridge) it can be smart to wait further away. But on a busy day that can be difficult. From another point of view, trying to tow in a channel on a busy day, if you have steerage problems, might be a bad idea.
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Old 07-07-2014, 07:12   #13
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Re: Overtaking vessel wanting you to speed up

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Originally Posted by Saltysailor2 View Post
Once docked he told me that since he was towing in a narrow channel he felt he was the stand on vessel.
There are no special privileges afforded towing vessels. As far as the steering and sailing rules apply, a towing vessel is just another power-driven vessel. There is an exception where the tow 'severely' restricts the towing vessel's manoeuvrability, that vessel would be RAM, but must show the RAM dayshapes - I assume he was not.
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Old 07-07-2014, 09:40   #14
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Re: Overtaking vessel wanting you to speed up

Would be far better if you gave us an idea of the speeds or the actual location.
- Were you being timid or using the visibility of the side channels as a justification for messing with him?
- We don't know when he started down the channel relative to when you did. If he was already proceeding down the channel and then you took off, the idea that he should have waited goes out the window.
- In and of itself, towing isn't justificaiton but he could claim to have had limited ability to manuver in the channel which would have changed the situation. Your idea of enough speed for him to maintain manuverability and his may be different.

It's entirely possible, he was just a jerk but we don't have enough info to state that with any certainty.
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Old 07-07-2014, 09:51   #15
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Re: Overtaking vessel wanting you to speed up

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Originally Posted by Lodesman View Post
There are no special privileges afforded towing vessels. As far as the steering and sailing rules apply, a towing vessel is just another power-driven vessel. There is an exception where the tow 'severely' restricts the towing vessel's manoeuvrability, that vessel would be RAM, but must show the RAM dayshapes - I assume he was not.
Plus RAM is usually considered an open water concept..there is no pecking order in Rule 9 except over 20M being stand on over those below 20M and those NOT needing/using the channel fairway being giveway to everyone needing /using the channe/fairway.

Rule 18 starts off with...

Rule 18 - Responsibilities Between Vessels

Except where Rules 9, 10, and 13 otherwise require:

(a) A power-driven vessel underway shall keep out of the way of:
(i) a vessel not under command;
(ii) a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver;
(iii) a vessel engaged in fishing;
(iv) a sailing vessel.

So if in a narrow channel or fairway and can't maneuver to accommodate other traffic...even a RAM vessel towing has no privilege.
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