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View Poll Results: Which vessel is the Stand on vessel in the scenario of this post
Boat in front 43 97.73%
Boat with side-tow behind 1 2.27%
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Old 09-07-2014, 09:16   #76
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Re: Overtaking Vessel Wanting you to Speed Up

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Old 09-07-2014, 09:31   #77
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Re: Overtaking Vessel Wanting you to Speed Up

You keep saying he "SEEMED" to be in full control. Yet the fact he was trying to get you to speed up and didn't want to take focus away from the helm to have a vhf conversation suggests, he may not have had the same feeling. The fact he resorted to yelling also supports the idea that he didn't feel he had complete control of the situation.

Likewise, it probably "seemed" to him that you were being really pokey going down the channel and should have been able to easily speed up while maintaining a safe operation.

None of us was there so we are only getting half the story which "seems" to be standard in these the "jerk didn't follow the rules" threads.
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Old 09-07-2014, 09:32   #78
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Re: Overtaking Vessel Wanting you to Speed Up

There are rules and there are tossers. I think you were logically following the rules and he was the tosser.

Two other personal rules I Like to follow are:
Slower is better than faster and I like to introduce tossers to the authorities for some reeducation.

In reality its sometimes just easier to get out a their way and give them a wide berth.

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Old 09-07-2014, 09:32   #79
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Re: Overtaking Vessel Wanting you to Speed Up

PS: I'd rather my boat be near yours than his.

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Old 09-07-2014, 11:12   #80
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Re: Overtaking Vessel Wanting you to Speed Up

Oh good. I atlast read through it all and can inject my thoughts. First off I also have a masters license, used to sail a 39' boat and have been to Elliot Bay.

1) the main fairway in the marina is crowed and has constant traffic moving in and out of the mooring fairways. I can imagine what it is like on a major holiday. Pure insanity for sure.

2) my 39' would cruise at 2.5 kt at idle so you were likely doing more than 1.5 kt. I would for sure not be doing 5 kt there on that weekend.

3) Colregs apply and any local rules must be in conformance with the CFRs

4) It is very clear to me that you were proceeding at a speed that you felt was the max you could go in keeping with safe and prudent seamanship.

5) It is clear that he was not RAM and thus you both had the same occupation

6) It is clear that he did not feel it was safe to pass you, that he did not attempt so indicate that he wished to pass (via sound or vhf)

7) It is clear that he intended to go faster than he was and attempted to persuade you to go faster to meet his desires

In conclusion, you were proceeding at a safe speed and the vessel that came up to you was an overtaking vessel that did not feel safe in passing.

Thus you were the stand on vessel and he the burdened vessel.

All else is secondary up to the point that the overtaking vessel turns this into a Rule 2 situation.

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Old 09-07-2014, 11:40   #81
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Re: Overtaking Vessel Wanting you to Speed Up

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Originally Posted by Randyonr3 View Post
I find in situations as the OP has incountered, I revert to sign language. a simple middle finger held high and pointed skyward seems to do the trick.
And at the dock, when incountered, a simple "F**K YOU" has had good results.
I sincerely hope you are joking when you say this.
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Old 09-07-2014, 13:32   #82
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Re: Overtaking Vessel Wanting you to Speed Up

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I sincerely hope you are joking when you say this.
NOPE !
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Old 09-07-2014, 13:46   #83
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Re: Overtaking Vessel Wanting you to Speed Up

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NOPE !
And you think that is a mature, effective way to deal with other boaters, even the ones that may be jerks.

Do you not think that this kind of attitude makes you no better if not worse than the person you're flipping off?
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Old 09-07-2014, 15:24   #84
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Re: Overtaking Vessel Wanting you to Speed Up

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Originally Posted by Randyonr3 View Post
I find in situations as the OP has incountered, I revert to sign language. a simple middle finger held high and pointed skyward seems to do the trick.
And at the dock, when incountered, a simple "F**K YOU" has had good results.
We all see this type of feeble attempt at problem resolution.
It's just slamming a door with no success. You might as well lay down and wail while stomping your feet.
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Old 09-07-2014, 16:46   #85
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Re: Overtaking Vessel Wanting you to Speed Up

I always take a middle finger as a signal that says "I'm unarmed."
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Old 09-07-2014, 16:56   #86
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Re: Overtaking Vessel Wanting you to Speed Up

I went back and reread the first post...it didn't give me the impression that the guy towing did anything more than yell...it didn't even hint that the guy was obnoxious any more than yelling and frustrated that he was following someone who was going slower than he felt needed to be and maybe he was good enough that he didn't "appear" to be struggling.

The dockside chat seemed to go OK so to all of you that want to give the guy the finger...I hope you do someday and they break it off in your personal transom.

Yelling outdoors is many times a function of wanting to be heard...shouting with derogative comments is a different story that post #1 didn't allude to.

I'll say it yet again...while under no obligation to do anything different...the real question is was there an option if even a glimmer that the guy towing was having difficulty...if so...I can see the guy being irritated but then he had no cause to be obnoxious either.

I wasn't there so I can only point out the rules the way I understand them and Pelagic was so kind to point out his knowledge of some maritime legal issues that would possibly affect the basic rules.
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Old 09-07-2014, 17:29   #87
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Re: Overtaking Vessel Wanting you to Speed Up

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Originally Posted by Saltysailor2 View Post
I never noticed any posted signs for speed. So I just called and asked the Marina if there is a speed limit. They said its just no wake but go about 2 knots. I really never look at MY GPS for my speed in the marina so 1.5 is my guess.

SNIP
Not sure why so many folks keep saying five knots is a no wake speed.

Kinda like the babes who keep saying "no means no".

No wake means no wake. Some folks bend that to say no wake above six inches, but no wake means no wake. Hard for me to imagine a 40 foot power boat with a 20 foot tender lashed to the side not leaving a wake at five knots.
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Old 09-07-2014, 18:28   #88
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Re: Overtaking Vessel Wanting you to Speed Up

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Not sure why so many folks keep saying five knots is a no wake speed.

Kinda like the babes who keep saying "no means no".

No wake means no wake. Some folks bend that to say no wake above six inches, but no wake means no wake. Hard for me to imagine a 40 foot power boat with a 20 foot tender lashed to the side not leaving a wake at five knots.
Yah, but...

It's not posted. I'd be pushing the Marina to post a speed limit. It's seems that channel speed is a good piece of information to know and expecting everyone to ask the Marina office is a bit unreasonable.

Here is how one state (Tn) defines it (as posted by a marina) and clarification from that marina. I double quoted so you can see who said what.

They do not talk about controlability of the boat, which opens a whole nuther can of worms.

Quote:
Quote:
No Wake (Idle Speed) Areas

Unless otherwise marked, all vessels operating within 300 feet of a commercial boat dock must do so at a slow wake speed regardless of whether or not the area is marked by buoys.

“No wake” is defined as a vessel traveling at or below idle speed, or at such speed that the boat or its wake (waves) is not sufficient to cause possible injury or damage to other persons, boats, or property.
Speed in excess of five miles per hour is prohibited. Speed of all vessels must be reduced so the wash and wake will cause no discomfort, hazard, injury or damage to person, vessels or property.

Lots of vessels underway at 4.7 MPH will still create a “swell.” What is probably more important is if that wash and wake causes no discomfort, hazard, injury or damage. You can see that it is NOT an “either/or” regulation. Someone “plowing” at 4 MPH may not be exceeding 5 MPH, but they can create one heckuva wake.
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Old 09-07-2014, 19:28   #89
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Re: Overtaking Vessel Wanting you to Speed Up

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Yah, but...

It's not posted. I'd be pushing the Marina to post a speed limit. It's seems that channel speed is a good piece of information to know and expecting everyone to ask the Marina office is a bit unreasonable.

Here is how one state (Tn) defines it (as posted by a marina) and clarification from that marina. I double quoted so you can see who said what.

They do not talk about controlability of the boat, which opens a whole nuther can of worms.
Some how this did not appear in the quotation so I am cutting and pasting it

"Lots of vessels underway at 4.7 MPH will still create a “swell.” What is probably more important is if that wash and wake causes no discomfort, hazard, injury or damage. You can see that it is NOT an “either/or” regulation. Someone “plowing” at 4 MPH may not be exceeding 5 MPH, but they can create one heckuva wake. "

The problem with posted speed limits as opposed to no wake postings is that boats going slower than the posted limit can throw up a big wake. On the other hand a friend in the harbor had a Hobie Mirage I took for a spin in the harbor with a no wake sign. No GPS, but I am sure I was going faster than five knots, with no wake at all. On the other hand there were inflatables going to the dock that I was passing throwing up obvious wakes.

As for the TN stuff I have to point out I have a cat that is not quite twenty feet in beam. I have seen plenty of monohulls, especially less than thirty feet, on a ball close to me that are definitely affected by wake from boats that I don't notice. Of course the St. Franciss 50 ignores wakes that I do notice.

There seems to be a real tension between liveaboards that are subject to wakes 24/7 and folks who just go in and out of the harbor. I always try to error on the conservative side in speed and am frequently passed by folks who even if they are not going faster than 5 knots are still, as you say, creating one heckuva wake.
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Old 10-07-2014, 03:06   #90
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Re: Overtaking Vessel Wanting you to Speed Up

Harbor Rules

1. No faster then the posted Speed.

1. You are responsible, for any damage from your wake, no matter the speed limits!

It's, so simple

Watch out for bayliners!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, they are not responsible at all.

Lloyd


Quote:
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Some how this did not appear in the quotation so I am cutting and pasting it

"Lots of vessels underway at 4.7 MPH will still create a “swell.” What is probably more important is if that wash and wake causes no discomfort, hazard, injury or damage. You can see that it is NOT an “either/or” regulation. Someone “plowing” at 4 MPH may not be exceeding 5 MPH, but they can create one heckuva wake. "

The problem with posted speed limits as opposed to no wake postings is that boats going slower than the posted limit can throw up a big wake. On the other hand a friend in the harbor had a Hobie Mirage I took for a spin in the harbor with a no wake sign. No GPS, but I am sure I was going faster than five knots, with no wake at all. On the other hand there were inflatables going to the dock that I was passing throwing up obvious wakes.

As for the TN stuff I have to point out I have a cat that is not quite twenty feet in beam. I have seen plenty of monohulls, especially less than thirty feet, on a ball close to me that are definitely affected by wake from boats that I don't notice. Of course the St. Franciss 50 ignores wakes that I do notice.

There seems to be a real tension between liveaboards that are subject to wakes 24/7 and folks who just go in and out of the harbor. I always try to error on the conservative side in speed and am frequently passed by folks who even if they are not going faster than 5 knots are still, as you say, creating one heckuva wake.
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