Overseas Citizen, US Boat. What Does it Take? - Page 3

billyehh · 08-09-2009, 16:17

The Caymans are still a British Colony like Anguilla and Turks and Caicose while the Bahamas like Jamica have been completely independant for decades. It is a member of the Comonwealth, that does not give any special privileges to citizens of the UK.

Cheechako · 08-09-2009, 17:12

an awful lot of freighters seem to call Cayman home on their stern......

Vasco · 08-09-2009, 17:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dockhead

That's not exactly true. The Bahamas are a Commonwealth Realm, so Queen Elizabeth II is the queen of the Bahamas, too, and theoretically commands military forces and can overturn laws and so forth. It is true that the Bahamas are self-governing, but if you think they're completely sovereign just look at what happened in the Turks & Caicos last month.

So the Bahamas are British (even if they are not part of the UK) and UK citizens are not just like any other "foreigners".

You obviously haven't been to the Bahamas lately. UK citizens are treated no differently from other foreigners.

The Bahamas is a sovereign independent nation unlike the Turks and Caicos which is a British Overseas Territory as is The British Virgin Islands and some other vestigal "colonies".

British overseas territories are under the sovereignty of the UK and are not sovereign independent nations. T & C and BVI are in effect British colonies only they're no longer called colonies as that term seems to have lost favour.

And if you look at the various British Nationality Acts that the UK has passed since the late forties when the colonies started gaining independence, the citizens of the Bahamas and the "colonies" such as BVI and T & C are not British citizens like UK citizens.

Apparently the sun has set on the British Empire.

Inkwell · 08-09-2009, 19:02

Anjou-Please help me with the translation of ex fortis fils duice. I have an ex, but do I need another? David

windships · 13-09-2009, 10:52

Hi, Have you considered forming a US company, and havint it own the boat? Then it would remain registered in the US. When you ship it to EU for exapmle, it would require a cruising permit, or you can import it.

osirissail · 13-09-2009, 11:44

That would not work in the USA, a private recreational vessel must be owned by a US Citizen to be documented in the USA. Commerical vessels can be owned by a corporation but the majority stock holder must be US citizens. Other countries have different laws written to attract international business to spend money in their country.

**Pblais** · 13-09-2009, 16:03

Quote:

Other countries have different laws written to attract international business to spend money in their country.

Actually they don't. Those countries don't require the company owners to be citizens but do allow a local agent to act on behalf of the owners. Internationally it still is all the same. The agent collects a fee for the service of course. On a small boat it's about the same as the taxes and it has a renewal fee as well so you continue to pay.

In the US if the state wants to push that you only formed the corporation to dodge taxes then they actually have you for criminal tax fraud. At that point they threaten you with jail unless you pay up with penalties and interest. Tax fraud is the only crime where you are guilty until proven Innocent. Attempting to Document a vessel and not being a US citizen would be a federal crime all on it's own and not tax related. They probably wouldn't let you go either assuming they caught you. You would then never be allowed entrance to the US with the Homeland Security rules as they are now and they take your boat if it is still here.

This is nothing to mess around with and "gee I didn't know" is not a correct answer. Paperwork on your boat is 100% your responsibility and it is a huge deal if the authorities put you under the radar in any country. For the most part it does not come up all the time, but once is all you need.

Biffa · 13-09-2009, 18:55

We have just finished buying a non US registered vessel in Florida. We are both UK citizens working in the US. We maintained the boats registration in the BVI's because we wanted to be able to take the boat out of the US (to the Caribbean). The downside is that the boat has to leave when the cruising permit expires. The best advice I could give is get a good documentation company. Ours was recommended by the selling broker and they were fantastic - they got all the docs ready, understood what we didn't about all the red tape and got us through it all. Worth the money!

bobsadler · 15-09-2009, 01:55

i purchased my boat in the u.s., took her off the uscg register and re-flagged her on the jersey (uk) ships' register (open to any e.u. or commonwealth citizen).

i left the boat in north carolina.

a cruising permit is only required for boats entering the u.s. and is a way of keeping track of vessels on which import duty may be payable (it is not the boat equivalent of a visa)

left the u.s. last year and there was absolutely no problem clearing out of wilmington, n.c. with the c.g. - in fact it couldn't have been simpler

Africaqueen · 15-09-2009, 02:43

Ex Fortis Fils Dulce of Anjou:

"from the strength is borne the pleasantness"

should be?

(the use of subtantive Filius as a verb was unknown in latin, a more strict motto shoud be "ex Fortis Dulce")

The use of three world is a medieval habit to hide two meanings (notice the comma):

Ex Fortis, Fils Dulce = the strength fulfill (the beloved) of sweeteness

Ex Fortis Fils, Dulce = the (0ne) strenght are the children.

If is not (cleaverly) created by Anjou should be a 1200 South English Motto.

Curmudgeon · 15-09-2009, 16:01

As I said in another thread, any good maritime law firm can set up a bareboat chartering arrangement that will permit a non U.S. citizen to effectively own and operate a U.S. flagged vessel, and not just for recreational use. You set up a U.S. trust to own the boat (with a U.S. institutional trustee but a non-US beneficiary) and charter the boat to a U.S. citizen, which is a commercial charter company that does this sort of thing for a fee. The bareboat charterer then subcharters the boat to the non U.S. citizen. The USCG routinely approves these arrangements. This is not a fraudulent arrangement at all. If taxes are due, they are paid.

But the state registration route seems simpler and more practical.

08-09-2009, 16:17	#31
billyehh Registered User Join Date: May 2007 Location: Back in Toronto for the summer Boat: Voyage 38 - Oceanaire Posts: 95	The Caymans are still a British Colony like Anguilla and Turks and Caicose while the Bahamas like Jamica have been completely independant for decades. It is a member of the Comonwealth, that does not give any special privileges to citizens of the UK. __________________ Billyehh

13-09-2009, 10:52	#35
windships Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Singapore Boat: Cooper 60 Pilothouse Sloop Posts: 3	Overseas Citizen, US Boat. What does it Take? Hi, Have you considered forming a US company, and havint it own the boat? Then it would remain registered in the US. When you ship it to EU for exapmle, it would require a cruising permit, or you can import it.

15-09-2009, 01:55	#39
bobsadler Registered User Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Lagos, Nigeria Boat: Nauticat 42 (Jersey, U.K.) Posts: 155	i purchased my boat in the u.s., took her off the uscg register and re-flagged her on the jersey (uk) ships' register (open to any e.u. or commonwealth citizen). i left the boat in north carolina. a cruising permit is only required for boats entering the u.s. and is a way of keeping track of vessels on which import duty may be payable (it is not the boat equivalent of a visa) left the u.s. last year and there was absolutely no problem clearing out of wilmington, n.c. with the c.g. - in fact it couldn't have been simpler __________________ Bob SV Karen M http://www.freewebs.com/svkarenm/

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08-09-2009, 17:12	#32
Cheechako Registered User Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Skagit City, WA Boat: Fellippi 32 Posts: 2,205	an awful lot of freighters seem to call Cayman home on their stern......

08-09-2009, 19:02	#34
Inkwell Registered User Join Date: May 2007 Location: St. Simons Island, Ga. Boat: Hunter Legend 37.5 1993 Posts: 93	Anjou-Please help me with the translation of ex fortis fils duice. I have an ex, but do I need another? David

13-09-2009, 11:44	#36
osirissail Registered User Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: onboard in the Caribbean - mostly in Grenada Boat: Gulfstar 53 - Osiris Posts: 850	That would not work in the USA, a private recreational vessel must be owned by a US Citizen to be documented in the USA. Commerical vessels can be owned by a corporation but the majority stock holder must be US citizens. Other countries have different laws written to attract international business to spend money in their country.

13-09-2009, 18:55	#38
Biffa Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 4	We have just finished buying a non US registered vessel in Florida. We are both UK citizens working in the US. We maintained the boats registration in the BVI's because we wanted to be able to take the boat out of the US (to the Caribbean). The downside is that the boat has to leave when the cruising permit expires. The best advice I could give is get a good documentation company. Ours was recommended by the selling broker and they were fantastic - they got all the docs ready, understood what we didn't about all the red tape and got us through it all. Worth the money!

15-09-2009, 02:43	#40
Africaqueen Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: London, UK Boat: Grand Soleil 36 Posts: 8	Ex Fortis Fils Dulce of Anjou: "from the strength is borne the pleasantness" should be? (the use of subtantive Filius as a verb was unknown in latin, a more strict motto shoud be "ex Fortis Dulce") The use of three world is a medieval habit to hide two meanings (notice the comma): Ex Fortis, Fils Dulce = the strength fulfill (the beloved) of sweeteness Ex Fortis Fils, Dulce = the (0ne) strenght are the children. If is not (cleaverly) created by Anjou should be a 1200 South English Motto.

15-09-2009, 16:01	#41
Curmudgeon Registered User Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Boston, MA Boat: Sam Devlin Custom 28.5 Posts: 446	As I said in another thread, any good maritime law firm can set up a bareboat chartering arrangement that will permit a non U.S. citizen to effectively own and operate a U.S. flagged vessel, and not just for recreational use. You set up a U.S. trust to own the boat (with a U.S. institutional trustee but a non-US beneficiary) and charter the boat to a U.S. citizen, which is a commercial charter company that does this sort of thing for a fee. The bareboat charterer then subcharters the boat to the non U.S. citizen. The USCG routinely approves these arrangements. This is not a fraudulent arrangement at all. If taxes are due, they are paid. But the state registration route seems simpler and more practical.