Overseas Citizen, US Boat. What Does it Take?

[Fishman_Tx]

HAH!

[Pblais]

Once we owned the world but what with the recent trend towards giving territories back to the natives,

It's what happens when you don't keep up the payments.

If it were possible to live in a Cayman type UK protectorate in the sun (no taxes) etc then purchasing a cheaper and better found US boat and moving her 500 ish miles would make the best sense of all. That way the boat becomes at least like a vacation home in the sun and at best, acheiving the liveaboard cruising dream.

That scenario could work. You just need to check on immigration rules as far as how log you can stay. It is posible to register a boat there. It's one of the few places in the islands that works. You just need a hurricane plan that you can make happen with a phone call.

Most countries are like the US and are a citizens only club for registration. Honor amoung tax collectors is more widespread than world peace.

[Vasco]

Originally Posted by Fishman_Tx

The issue I was trying to determine was whether the vessel or the people had to leave. Does the "cruising permit" really apply here? As they are flying in and already Visa'd, I don't think that it would be applicable in this case.

It's the boat that has to leave but it can stay longer than most visitors. Canadian visitors in the US are only allowed to stay there 6 months a year. As far as other citizenships, it would depend on your visa. The cruising permit pertains to the vessel, not the owner, skipper or crew.

[Fishman_Tx]

Ok, I've talked to USCG and HomeSec. It IS legal to buy a US boat and and leave her here in hard storage or rented berth IN the US as registered foreign vessel OR a US flagged vessel with foreign owner, with proper STATE issued documentation as a recreational vessel. STANDARD Visa rules apply for visitation/travel. Cruising permits apply to those vessels & people from other countries visiting but not staying permanent without proper Visa/immigration hassles. I still have one more department to talk to and confirm the permit/visa issue, but the USCG info is correct.

In essence you could purchase the boat, register with the state it's in, and berth or store it(hard) til your ready to use it. You can EU/UK register it later, when your able to pay your VAT, move the boat, etc. Of course, you still have to get the Visa....

[Fishman_Tx]

Ok I may have mis-spoke using the word "flagged" which i believe refers to USCG "documented" vessels. i should have said "registered"...

[Africaqueen]

I am Italian and I have done exactly that.
The rules are exactly exposed by PBLAIS.

I bought a USCG boat in Massachussets. The boat was canceled from USCG and and I registered on the office of environmental affairs of Mass.
The registration has to be renewed every two years. (80$ fees)

I came every Year for a month for my vacations so I am not interested in a prolonged visa.

The project is to go to the Bahamas first and then to the south Caribbean.

I think to maintain the US register, but I do not know if in the Bahamas or in the Caribbean that will be practical.

Why yes:
price and conditions of sailboats in USA are excellent.
the countryside is extraordinary beautiful (that is why the boat is not yet in the Caribbean)
the American are fantastic people
the bureaucracy is fast and the employees helpful (if you know Europe you know what I mean)
cheap price of the marinas
Why not:
you cannot use the boat for the week end (but in Italy I should pay three times what I spend for the maintenance of the boat and in any case is not possible to use the boat more than three month, what you call Hurricane or tornado we call Bora and is a wind that blows from ten to thirty times a year)

YouTube - temporale sul golfo di trieste 30.08.07..p2

YouTube - Barcolana 2007 Buon Vento anzi Bora over 30 knots

YouTube - Bora vs port in Croatia

[Zanshin]

Originally Posted by anjou

So maybe its a little complex to own a boat and keep it in Fl and just sail it on vacation, but what about a UK or EU citizen keeping / registering in Brit Bahamas or BVI or other Brit /EU carib islands? What would the rules be then?

No worries there, an EU citizen can now register and keep a boat in the BVI. I did that with my last boat, the current boat is UK registered and is currently in Antigua - no problems there, either.

[Pblais]

I think to maintain the US register, but I do not know if in the Bahamas or in the Caribbean that will be practical.

State registered would be fine for the areas near the US. It's common to see them used. In other parts of the world it could be a problem as some officials don't understand all possible paperwork. A Country issue registration has less chance of being questioned.

At times that matter the papers prove who owns the boat to officials that might question you. You can be requested to prove ownership by any offiical you might come in contact with. A response of "Of course it's my boat you idiot." might lead to a long afternoon.

[anjou]

Yeah, like the sometimes heard 'Do you know who I am?' to which I would reply, 'Theres a gentleman here who doesnt know who he is, can anybody help please'

[Fishman_Tx]

Definitely makes things a bit easier to swallow when one wants to buy a US boat. The VAT wouldn't be due until the Home Country Registration occurs, would it? If so, one could put that off indefinitely.....?

[Africaqueen]

Fishman, in Italy without the VAT declaration they you could not register...
and without the CE conformity mark you cannot register
and without the RINA periodic visit (every 5 year 2000$) you cannot register
and without the VHF certificate you can register but not navigate
and without the "approved" (30 to 50% more costly than in USA) safety vest you can register but not navigate

And once you have all accomplished expect to be stopped at least twice in a month by:
Carabinieri (military police)
Guardia di Finanza (revenue police)
Guardia costiera (coast guard)
Polizia (police)
Vigili urbani (local police)
Guardie ambientali (eco police)
Guardie del Parco (park police)

In the meantime a lot of north Africans enter in the coast and land un-spotted.

So you understand why USA is better.

[anjou]

Italy doesnt sound too boat friendly does it? Like motorists in the uk, it seems they are sitting ducks for revenue collectors and bureaucrats

[Fishman_Tx]

But, that DOES validate my point. As long as the boat stays in the US, registered to the appropriate state, all is cool. Nothing else has to be done; VAT,CE, etc., ad nauseum...until one is ready to register in the home country. Thus allowing as much time as one needs to save $$ for EU compliance changes and VAT costs prior to bringing it home. One could then take holiday in the US and stay on, sail, cruise, refit, upgrade,...whatever....on the boat. Take a year, take five, take a lifetime....

Whatever floats yer boat!

[osirissail]

- - As discussed in other forum threads - Anybody in the world can buy and many, many of them do buy boats in Florida and register them in the State of Florida. The boats can stay in Florida forever without problems and even travel USA waters without restriction (i.e., no cruising permits needed). Foreign owned vessels cannot be USCG (federal level) Documented. This puts a severe restriction on the vessel if the foreign owner wants to take it out of the USA waters and into another country. Very few countries recognize "non-federal level" registrations. Very much like your drivers license is not an international "passport" local State registration is not federal level Documentation.
- - There are no end of small countries willing to sell you their Documentation for your vessel. Normally this always involves setting up a "corporation" or legal entity in the country which owns the boat and then you own the "corporation." Primarily this is used for super mega-yachts to avoid taxation on the vessel in their home country. Since it is a complicated legal endeavor (endeavour, for you Brits) it is not normally "cost-effective" for a small yacht owner.
- - No country wants to stop you from purchasing boats or goods in their country so they usually have liberal rules that allow you to purchase the boat, outfit it, and then take it out of the country. It is up to you to decide where you will use the boat and how to legally "document" it.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Vasco

There is no Brit Bahamas. Bahamas is an independent nation. UK citizens are subject to the same rules as other foreigners.

That's not exactly true. The Bahamas are a Commonwealth Realm, so Queen Elizabeth II is the queen of the Bahamas, too, and theoretically commands military forces and can overturn laws and so forth. It is true that the Bahamas are self-governing, but if you think they're completely sovereign just look at what happened in the Turks & Caicos last month.

So the Bahamas are British (even if they are not part of the UK) and UK citizens are not just like any other "foreigners".