Operating a Business in International Waters

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by DennisM

Please inform your family that anyone who owns a Pearson 422 is not a bum by any definition. If they don't believe you, keelhaul them.

Thank you for that. Can I have my mother call you so you can explain it to her?

[s/v Jedi]

Much like this but mid-ocean instead of mid-space. Think of it, it would also be a good place for diplomats to meet... just like here:

Babylon 5 Season 1 Intro HD - YouTube

[lorenzo b]

All kinds of goods and services are regularly exchanged at sea, mostly fuel. In port, many commercial boats that are corporately owned will sell fuel at night for cash. Here in the Western Caribbean, medium tankers hang off shore with fuel from Venesuela. The only problem for cruisers is that they all want to do business with the fishing fleets that buy 10,000 gallons and can keep quiet. Cruisers buy 50 gallons and will sail two days to save 10 cents a gallon. Serious trawlers are happy to pay whatever for good clean fuel that will cause no problems, but they are far and few.
Make your money in the States, and spend it overseas, it's easier.

[David_Old_Jersey]

If you park your "country" too near another one (even if international waters) then you can expect action. Might not involve guns, but likely would involve targetting those who return with the goods - including on import duty and paperwork.

IIRC there is another thread already on doing similar with Offshore Services (not goods). I think that involved women and "recreationals"......and the "Fun" only starting in international waters, but the ship docking in places to pick up the punters.

The idea does have some merit - whether an 18-30 cruise ship (where the participants are unpaid!) or a Gentlemans club / Pole Dancing Bar, where the staff may also freelance.......both business models work onshore in many places.

I also vaguely recall that back in the dotcom days that the idea was raised of sending a bank into space (orbit) - the thinking being that it was unregulated, but that was easily kyboshed by the folks on the ground (if no other banks are allowed to deal with the space bank it can't function).

[RedHerring]

> both business models work onshore in many places
LOL. Which is why they don't usually survive in an offshore configuration. Competition.

[Stu Jackson]

Kinda like The Graduate "Plastics"

Only two: wind and waves

Makes for security, and secure transfers, questionable at some times, which eats into "work days." While fuel transfers could be done, most cruisers aren't equipped with solid locking devices on their fuel fills. And if I'm doing work on my boat, plumbing, electrical, cleaning, I want it as calm as possible.

[FLLCatsailor]

Originally Posted by bobconnie

Old Idea, been done a few times I know of ! Once by a friend of mine with an aluminum 60 ft Cat, with BIG fuel tanks ! He did pretty well for a couple of years. He finaly got a bad health problem, and had to return to Louisiana, and soon passed away, leaveing his partner, and his children with a boat and no way to use it ! Always seemed to be a working idea to me ! but never had tanks large enough to do much but just fill em up in Columbia, or else where with cheap diesel, and then be able to cruise a little cheaper for a while !! Big difference in US prices for diesel, and fuel in some other countrys ! And with the normal winds you can do a round about under sail. I would think if ya had enough tankage you might do well ! But how you would let folks know where and what ya have for sale might be the biggest problem !! Just my 2 cents

When I lived in Canouan every now and then we would have boats come up from Venezuela and sell fuel... It was pennies on the dollar compared to the fuel dock since no import duty was paid. The quality was questionable, as were the guys selling the fuel... One night they were on island I had a Beneteau Cyclades 43 stolen... The boat turned up a couple days later in St. Martin with signs of human smuggling...

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

If you park your "country" too near another one (even if international waters) then you can expect action. Might not involve guns, but likely would involve targetting those who return with the goods - including on import duty and paperwork.

Indeed. Someone tried selling tax free booze and cigarettes from an old trawler in the North Sea to hardy souls who would venture out past the UK limits of 12 miles. UK Customs and Excise put a stop to the whole operation when he came ashore for more supplies and a rest. It never sailed again.

However, there is a large tanker between Greenland and Iceland that supplies the fishing fleets operating in the area with fuel. Tacking on some fags (cigarettes for US folk ) and girlie magazines would probably be profitable given the location.

Pete

[goboatingnow]

Other then fuel to boats , which has advantages of being easily stored and free from significant duties offshore , I can't for the life of me think what other things would be worth while. Who is going to go miles off shore to buy tee shirts etc.

Were it in any way feasible , it would have been done by now , given a ship isn't hard to buy !

It's a solution looking for a problem

Dave

[Jimbo485]

C'mon, Alex / Atoll! The fuel buy / sell is the obvious one (short of cocaine) for maximizing profits compared to costs.

And you have already done it during a RTW.

So spill the beans, mate!

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Other then fuel to boats , which has advantages of being easily stored and free from significant duties offshore , I can't for the life of me think what other things would be worth while. Who is going to go miles off shore to buy tee shirts etc.

Were it in any way feasible , it would have been done by now , given a ship isn't hard to buy !

It's a solution looking for a problem

Dave

Your thinking is based around finding solutions to problems. But that is not the case here. There are many attractions that people travel the world around to see; I mean who would go to a place like LA if it wasn't for attractions like Universal City and Disneyland?! None of those are solutions to problems.

A service station mid Atlantic would be as popular as the Azores and Cape Verde's are to trans-atlantic sailors now. It would be another place to get a break, have fun, get stuff done, provision, meet friends halfway etc.
This would make it an attraction to others too. Movies would be filmed there, stories told and all that automatically leads to tourism.

[SosdOKme]

My sister and I have an amazing idea. However we don't have much knowledge about boating. In fact I've only been on a boat twice in my life. Once a little boat from Newport California to Catalina and once on a cruise ship that went only around the bay. I just started doing research for our idea, and came across this forum. So far it's been pretty inspiring. I don't know the lingo and apologize for my inexperience with marine life and boating. Our idea is one that would save lives and help a lot of people. It is for a nonprofit organization that offers a great service. We want it to be located in international waters. On a cruise ship or yacht or something similar. We are still trying to put together a business plan and get our idea more scripted. Seeing how this was started in 2013 I'd love to know if anything has come of this forums idea? Or if any updates. Thanks!

[more]

Originally Posted by denverd0n

International water is 12 miles offshore in most places. At least 3 miles offshore everywhere that I know of.

totally wrong

Generally, international waters start around 200 nautical miles from the country’s shoreline and continue outward. To complicate it more, international waters are usually broken into sections, and different countries have various rights concerning these sections.
international water map is here
https://www.marineregions.org/eezmapper.php

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by more

totally wrong

Generally, international waters start around 200 nautical miles from the country’s shoreline and continue outward. To complicate it more, international waters are usually broken into sections, and different countries have various rights concerning these sections.
international water map is here
https://www.marineregions.org/eezmapper.php

Nope. 12 miles is correct.

Countries do have certain rights like fishing and mineral rights up to 200 nm offshore but the legal boundary of a country stops at 12 miles. This is extended up to 12 additional miles in special cases for enforcement of criminal statutes.

The 12 mile limit was established by the 1982 UN Convention on Law of the Sea.

[tennis4789]

Right now on a cruise.

I think Cruise workers get paid about double what their countries pay. & still its not us minimum wage. Arbitrage labor.

Cleaning service, restaurant, spa, gambling, dental/health. Pretty much all the high margin services the cruise ships provide. Have everyone on the hook & schedule a maid service. Have an area to go snorkeling. Movie. Pretty much cruise ship experience with everyone owning their own boat.

Buy a cruise ship. Have workers go to people's boats. Probably profitable & have chance to stay in business if it doesn't involve hookers & cocaine. Have people be able to get dinner reservations or pay for a day pass. The thermal spa is $320 for 7 days on NCL plus probably 20% gratuity. So almost $50/day. Thermal spa is $79 for just a day.

Internet is like $35/day on cruise ship.

Put on comedians & shows.

Seems doable but be expensive to buy maybe 2 ships & risky if there aren't enough people interested. & any crime occurs will kill the business.

Edit: but as soon as a cruise line sees success in this area. Why wouldn't carnival/ncl just steal it? They already do the above legally & do it pretty well.