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Old 01-01-2011, 05:01   #1
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Operarting an Inspected Vessesl sans License

I have been training on an inspected vessel and am awaiting my captain's license in the mail. I have been asked to make a run with a passenger. The passenger is not paying, just a co-worker. Am I aloud to drive the boat without a captain on board? The vessel is inspected.
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Old 01-01-2011, 07:30   #2
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Unbusted, a quick reading of CFR 46 part 15.515 states, that the vessel cannot be operated unless it has the compliment of crew as required by it's COI. I didn't read the whole section to see what all the exceptions might be.

However, in either case I would think you would need an appropriate license and your twic in your possession in order to operate this vessel.

Electronic Code of Federal Regulations:
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Old 01-01-2011, 10:01   #3
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Yeah it would seem that I am not aloud to run that boat without my license or a captain overseeing me as crew.
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Old 01-01-2011, 10:54   #4
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Ok, going out on a limb here, but I *think* that the CFR is assuming the vessel being USED as an inspected passenger vessel ( T boat or smaller). If there are no passengers (think delivery or maintenance) I don't believe the USCG requires a licensed master to be aboard. Now the insurer may have an issue with it!
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Old 01-01-2011, 10:58   #5
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A. Is ANYONE making any money or paying any money on this move ?
B. Is there enough happily unpaid crew on board to make this move for the owner?

If A wait for the mail, If B have fun.
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Old 02-01-2011, 05:01   #6
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This is from the CFR:

Whenever a vessel is deprived of the service of a member of its complement, and the master or person in charge is unable to find appropriate credentialed personnel to man the vessel, the master or person in charge may proceed on the voyage, having determined the vessel is sufficiently manned for the voyage. A report of sailing short must be filed in writing with the Officer in Charge, Marine Inspection (OCMI) having cognizance for inspection in the area in which the vessel is operating, or the OCMI within whose jurisdiction the voyage is completed. The report must explain the cause of each deficiency and be submitted within twelve hours after arrival at the next port. The actions of the master or person in charge in such instances are subject to review and it must be shown the vacancy was not due to the consent, fault or collusion of the master or other individuals specified in 46 U.S.C. 8101(e). A civil penalty may be assessed against the master or person in charge for failure to submit the report.
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Old 02-01-2011, 09:38   #7
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Call the CG and tell them what you want to do and ask for permission to move the boat. They will say either yes or no - either way the issue is resolved.

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Old 02-01-2011, 10:22   #8
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I do this all the time. If nobody is paying to be onboard, you are not sailing under your license. If though the USCG has minimum crew requirements for your vessel to get underway and you do not abide by those, then you can get in trouble. These requirements are for larger vessels and typically not for pleasure boat sized vessels.

How long is the boat you are talking about and does it have any crew requirements?

If you are uncertain, call the Coasties first.
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Old 02-01-2011, 12:54   #9
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"Call the USCG"

Ah, not a good idea when it is NOT HIS BOAT. The employer will probably blow a cork when their employee questions their orders and calls the authorities as well.

More politic to ask the employer "I'm not certain I'm allowed to do that, we could both get in trouble. What if we/you call the USCG just to make sure this is OK?"
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Old 02-01-2011, 12:57   #10
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What? I took it that the soon to be licensed captain that he had authority from the owner to move the boat. The other question is, is it legal? From what he says, it is legal. Unless it's a vessel with crew requirements as stated on the COI.
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Old 02-01-2011, 13:36   #11
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I think the license and crew requirements on the COI apply only when paying passengers are present, and I think it should be OK for him to move the boat.
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Old 06-01-2011, 11:40   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amarinesurveyor View Post
I think the license and crew requirements on the COI apply only when paying passengers are present, and I think it should be OK for him to move the boat.
Brian
As a generalization, manning requirements would not apply to smaller yacht type vessels but would for larger vessels like ships, OSV's, ocean going tugs and other larger vessels. So yes, in his case, I would not worry about it except if he has paying passengers on board.
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Old 06-01-2011, 11:57   #13
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I'm with Tempest on this. What the COI states as required crew compliment should be adhered to whenever the vessel is operated, even moving the boat from the slip to the fuel dock counts. I can answer questions by email if you want to know more.
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Old 18-10-2012, 15:09   #14
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Re: Operarting an Inspected Vessesl sans License

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vyndance View Post
A. Is ANYONE making any money or paying any money on this move ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vyndance View Post
B. Is there enough happily unpaid crew on board to make this move for the owner?

If A wait for the mail, If B have fun.
Had to dig into this for a friend, so here's the what the CFR says.
1. Manning requirements are specified as "complement of inspected vessels" and outlined in the inspected vessel's COI (46 CFR 8101)
2. A COI is only applicable to vessel that is "subject to inspection" (as listed 46 CFR 3301)
3. If the vessel in not "subject to inspection" then the COI is not applicable nor is the compliment specified therein.

Example: A small passenger vessel is one type of vessel that is "subject to inspection" and must have a COI defining its required crew complement. A small passenger vessel is defined by the CFR as "Carrying more than 6 passengers, including at least 1 passenger for hire;" (46 CFR Part 3 Vessel Inspections p2.10-25). Therefore, if carrying no passengers, its not subject to inspection, and COI complement is not applicable. (Just make sure that no passenger compensation of any kind is connected to the voyage..cash, barter, service...anything.)

Additionally, written notification can be made to the Secretary stating the vessel will "not be operated so as to require an inspection." (46 CFR 3309). This means the USCG will not consider it for inspection.

Don't assume that full competence comes with the uniform. The Local OCMI may not be completely versant on the full CFR or how to apply it. Remember that there is also no incentive or consequence for the OCMI to apply it correctly. All this means is that you have to do your homework to keep "the Man" off your back. I've personal knowledge of two different OCMIs apply opposite decision for the same boat in an identical situation.

My recommendation: Layout your logic in a non-threatening way to the local OCMI. Don't challenge their authority or try to play "gotcha!". Simply ask for his/her "assistance" in interpreting the CFR as research for a hypothetical. Let them be the authority and the hero to approve it for you.

-Good Luck

The above does not constitute legal advice, you should seek personal legal representation in the subjct of martime law for you individual circumstances or situation.
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Old 18-10-2012, 16:41   #15
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Re: Operarting an Inspected Vessesl sans License

For everyone's info, this thread was started on January 1 of 2011.
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