NZ Cat 1 experience

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by Connemara

OTOH, the US is very serious about people clearing in. If I go across lake Ontario, I'd better be at the video terminal with my passport pronto.

On yet another hand, I don't have to -- to my knowledge -- tell Canada I'm leaving.

In principle, I guess I'm supposed to tell Canada Customs (and declare all that wonderful cheap US booze) when I come back.

Connemara

In the PNW folks travel between the Gulf Islands and San Juans regularly. There is no clearance outbound, but there is customs AND immigration on arrival both ways unless you just passing through.

Jack

[MidLandOne]

Originally Posted by Steve Pope

The height for survey is/was 3 feet probably 1 metre now.

(Been no such thing as "in survey" for many years here in NZ now). Under Safe Ship Management ie commercial not pleasure vessels, it varies according to length of vessel. For example, passenger vessels longer than 10m but less than 16 m the height is 750mm but the Safe Ship Management inspector also has discretion (for lower, or requiring higher if a safety issue with the rule height).

There is still no Maritime Rule for commercial sailing vessels, which would include charter sail boats, (has been just around the corner for many years, the first draft was scuttled as inappropriate by industry back around 1999) but it would be a silly Safe Ship Management company that demanded anything different than Cat 1.

For Cat 1 cruising there is discretion - I have seen catamarans pass inspection with no lifelines at all along parts of the deck as considered safe without. But that was before the 2006-2007 version of the ISAF Cat 1 which now specifically requires lifelines on cats and tris - I don't know if a YNZ inspector would still apply discretion in this and I don't recall if this has made it into the latest YNZ version - I am on the boat and my copy of that is at home.

ISAF Cat 1 is 600mm min except vessels under 8.5 can be 450mm - pretty sure it is the same for the YNZ version.

[Steve Pope]

I remember in the 1970's when Chartering was just starting in NZ and a guy from up my way had a Davidson M20 built to survey to charter out of Sandspit we sailed it to Auckland to under go inspection. 3 poms came aboard in suits and ties and shoes. One set to trying to wrench the whale gusher bilge pump out of the cockpit, after 20 minutes he gave up, another queried where was the bucket of sand for fire fighting and the axe for cutting through bulkheads etc. etc, not sure what the other one was doing, with 5 people on a 20 footer there wasn't much room . It was like keystone cops. The staunchions had to be 3' and it had to have 2 full size life rings. These guys were used to surveying big ships, I got the feeling they were out of their depth and didn't understand much about yachts.
I wasn't aware that the was no "in survey" now for yachts, I have just spoken to a woman who is buying a Roberts Mauritius who wants to get it surveyed for charter, on the strength of that I thought it was still a requirement.

[MidLandOne]

Originally Posted by Steve Pope

I wasn't aware that the was no "in survey" now for yachts, I have just spoken to a woman who is buying a Roberts Mauritius who wants to get it surveyed for charter, on the strength of that I thought it was still a requirement.

As with all non SOLAS commercial vessels she has to put it into Safe Ship Management with a Maritime NZ approved Safe Ship Management company (of which some are absolute no hopers and cowboys - believe me, I have been in the position to know better than anyone). I think there are some changes in Safe Ship Management on the horizon to try and get around that problem.

Is funny because you still occasionally see boats advertised as being in Marine Department Survey - a hark back to the early 1990's .

[NoTies]

Things haven't changed much, I put 4 50' charter yachts through their 4 year SSM recert last year and I'm sure the same pom was doing the inspection.

[GMac]

I had a great SSM company and bloke. He knew what I used the boat (barge) for and we (he) agreed we could on purpose break a few rules, the lifeline or in our just more a fence, being just one. We both agreed it was in everyones best interest to be able to jump off very quickly in some situations so we had no rails. But I have run into some complete raving loonies who are SSM surveyors.

I suspect that a lot of the history about NZ boats having to 'clear out' officially is due to where we are. Basically a 1000 miles from the next dry bit, in any direction. Back in the day everyone used to tell everyone when, where and back when, sort of details. These days the cost of rescuing loonies or good yachties but poor boat setter-uppers is bloody expensive so there is no reason to change the rules.

While I think it is technically not illegal to not have a valid Cat 1 Cert the Customs Dept does seem to have a way of mis-placing paperwork if you don't sometimes. Leaving without Customs clearance is illegal. That applies to any boat under any flag. I suppose you could just set sail and land in some country that doesn't have a highly enforced border but there is very very few of those within many many 1000's of miles of here. Up the Pac Islands there is not many officials but the local word of mouth is fast and spreads far.

It's not hard and a good reality check for many when someone who's 'been there done that' take an independent suss of their boat. I know a few people who had some big surprises when they were sussed thinking they were fine. There's not much on the list you wouldn't seriously look at taking anyway. And when you do check out and the paperwork's a lot of where and when sort of questions as in 'if it goes bad where do we start searching 1st'. Not a bad idea even if there can be a lot of mucking around.

And NoTies is loving every moment of it

[NoTies]

Friends of mine whose boat has been cat 1 at least twice previously had the same inspector as me a couple of weeks ago and he pulled the up on a few things yet we breezed through even though the boat had never been cat 1 before. I did get the inspector down a few months ago in a private capacity for a consult and he recommended a few things that fell outside the regs which we did so I guess he at least realised we were listening to him & respecting his advice.

[Steve Pope]

Hey Max where are you??

[maxlev]

Originally Posted by Steve Pope

Hey Max where are you??

loitering WHG,
waiting for a thru hull transducer I bought in Auck over a month ago,
do you have them in stock?
"Yes"
pay at till,
"Oh we have to order in, will courier, be there in a few days"
week later, where is it
"Oh it's on back order"
pricks,
need it as bum needs cleaning and painting,
spewing.

[Alan Wheeler]

Pete, what things did you need to do or get? I mean, with your experiance and where you have already been, I am surprised you ould have had to do anything.

[southernman]

Pete has done the right thing. Form a relationship with the Cat 1 inspector of trust and integrity. That is all they ask for - no BS. So many people going offshore try and BS the inspector it's not funny. Congrats on passing Cat 1 Pete - it is a milestone on one's yachting history! I'll see you next weekend!

[Joli]

Unless you race there is nothing like this in the US. Here, anyone can buy any boat in any condition and go anywhere. Not sure if that is good but that is the way it is.

[Alan Wheeler]

Here, anyone can buy any boat in any condition and go anywhere.

But that now contradicts the information posted earlier in regards to USCG inspections and requirements. You guys are confusing

[Joli]

Wheels, the CG is too busy boarding boats sailing from Canada under the pretext of catching Mexicans entering the US illegally to bother with boat inspections. Honest, I heard it from Customs and Immagrations........

Originally Posted by Alan Wheeler

But that now contradicts the information posted earlier in regards to USCG inspections and requirements. You guys are confusing

[NoTies]

Originally Posted by Alan Wheeler

Pete, what things did you need to do or get? I mean, with your experiance and where you have already been, I am surprised you ould have had to do anything.

Didn't need to do anything extra, the whole inspection took about 1 1/2 hours and he was happy with everything. (last minute dash to get crutch straps for the lifejackets as I couldn't find the ones I had bought a couple years ago)