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View Poll Results: My reaction to such legislation on a scale of 1-5
1 - thinik it's a great idea 3 6.25%
2 - not impresseed but it wouldn't stop me going there 9 18.75%
3- total indifference 5 10.42%
4- Bad idea and I'd try to let them know 14 29.17%
5- Deeply offensive - boycott the place. 17 35.42%
Voters: 48. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 16-07-2013, 17:13   #1
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NZ and Foreign Flagged Vessels

After the recent unsuccessful search for NIna, a Maritime Lawyer appeared on NZ television suggesting we reinstate Rule 21 (mandatory safety inspections for foreign vessels wishing to depart NZ).

This has lead to an interesting discussion on a NZ based sailing forum Here's a link - apologies if that offends anyone here, Crew.org.nz • View topic - Safety Inspections for foreign flagged boats

Since Crew.org.nz is inhabited mostly by NZ sailors I'd like to hear a more "international" take on it.
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Old 16-07-2013, 17:25   #2
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Re: NZ and Foreign Flagged Vessels

This issue has been argued in NZ up to their supreme court. It was thrown out.

Seems like that should have silenced this forever, but I guess that's wishful thinking!

Cheers,

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Old 16-07-2013, 17:28   #3
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pirate Re: NZ and Foreign Flagged Vessels

More Dickheads who think legislation and not people save lives..
Mind... there's a few folk who reckon they're sailors believe that as well..
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Old 16-07-2013, 17:36   #4
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Re: NZ and Foreign Flagged Vessels

The cruising community should oppose this sort of legislation in the strongest possible terms.
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Old 16-07-2013, 17:45   #5
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Re: NZ and Foreign Flagged Vessels

Could wrap it in with a cruising permit ($$$) which has a requirement for foreign boats to have insurance (on boat, personal healthcare and for SAR).......whether boats and folks get inspected by insurance companies is then nothing to do with NZ (cheap!), and even when a boat sinks (not an if!) it won't cost the locals to do a SAR.
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Old 17-07-2013, 03:45   #6
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Re: NZ and Foreign Flagged Vessels

Had to vote 5 as there was no 6
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Old 17-07-2013, 04:43   #7
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Re: NZ and Foreign Flagged Vessels

Cat I rules require a competent skipper and a seaworthy boat! Hardly onerous requirements but if you don't agree with them leave your radio and EPIRB at home so that you don't bother anyone else when you are trouble and don't take any 'innocents' with you when you go.
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Old 17-07-2013, 05:08   #8
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Re: NZ and Foreign Flagged Vessels

I assume all those who think its a great idea also expect a haul out and inspection for every country they visit.
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Old 17-07-2013, 07:10   #9
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Re: NZ and Foreign Flagged Vessels

Its a non-story. It can not happen. Its impossible. Its against international Law and NZ knows this and their highest court has agreed.

Its will never ever come into law in NZ or any other western country.

Wars have been fought over Extraterritoriality. Anyone who did history, law, politics will tell you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraterritoriality
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Old 17-07-2013, 07:16   #10
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Re: NZ and Foreign Flagged Vessels

If they bring that sort of draconian legislation into force, NZ won't see me that's for sure. I already have a problem with their regs on pet dogs, so I doubt I will ever set foot there. A pity, I'm reliably informed that the Bay of Islands is worth the scenery. I,m sure there are many more places worth the scenery.
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Old 17-07-2013, 07:18   #11
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Re: NZ and Foreign Flagged Vessels

Quote:
Originally Posted by noelex 77 View Post
I assume all those who think its a great idea also expect a haul out and inspection for every country they visit.
Well said, maybe any country who expects this sort of thing from foreign boats should be made to do the same if one of their citizens visits any foreign port.
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Old 17-07-2013, 07:23   #12
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Re: NZ and Foreign Flagged Vessels

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
Its a non-story. It can not happen. Its impossible. Its against international Law and NZ knows this and their highest court has agreed.

Its will never ever come into law in NZ or any other western country.

Wars have been fought over Extraterritoriality. Anyone who did history, law, politics will tell you.

Extraterritoriality - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Hope you are right Mark.
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Old 17-07-2013, 07:25   #13
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Re: NZ and Foreign Flagged Vessels

Quote:
Originally Posted by noelex 77 View Post
The cruising community should oppose this sort of legislation in the strongest possible terms.
I agree ... and the strongest possible terms is a boycott.
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Old 17-07-2013, 07:27   #14
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Re: NZ and Foreign Flagged Vessels

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluewaters2812 View Post
I agree ... and the strongest possible terms is a boycott.

Interesting the poll is quite close.

Dave
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Old 17-07-2013, 08:58   #15
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Re: NZ and Foreign Flagged Vessels

Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Moondancer View Post
Cat I rules require a competent skipper and a seaworthy boat! Hardly onerous requirements but if you don't agree with them leave your radio and EPIRB at home so that you don't bother anyone else when you are trouble and don't take any 'innocents' with you when you go.
Wonder if you have looked at the Cat One requirements ?

Here is a link:http://www.sailing.org/tools/documen...2012Mo1240112-[11793].pdf

Now, go through them carefully and see if YOUR boat will actually pass muster.

Many of the requirements are valid and represent normal seamanship and boat husbandry. But others are difficult to apply to our form of sailing... things like requiring various certificates of construction and design that rule out home built boats, boats not designed by a recognized authority and so on. And then there is the requirement for specific formal training for skipper and crews... all good stuff, but not in every cruiser's CV. OH yes... the rules require an inboard engine to be fitted... and a trysail and storm jib of high visibility material. And so on...

Note that I am not saying that any of these requirements are bad, just that a great many successful cruising vessels will not pass the test.

Back during the period where NZ did require Cat One for departing foreign boats we were told that the inspectors would not be too rigid in their interpretation of the rules. In practice, this was usually true, but IIRC there were a few folks who got crosswise with the inspectors and were denied approval. The recent incident with boat Alexander shows that individual interpretation of the rules can lead to difficulties even without the Cat One stipulations. To add these specific and technically complicated requirements would (even if legal, which they are not) surely cause unneeded problems for both officials and cruisers.

Finally, we have no way of knowing whether the Nina would have passed the inspection, so to use this incident to support the imposition of stricter rules for departure is unwarranted.

Cheers,

Jim
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