Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

View Poll Results: My reaction to such legislation on a scale of 1-5
1 - thinik it's a great idea 3 6.25%
2 - not impresseed but it wouldn't stop me going there 9 18.75%
3- total indifference 5 10.42%
4- Bad idea and I'd try to let them know 14 29.17%
5- Deeply offensive - boycott the place. 17 35.42%
Voters: 48. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 17-07-2013, 09:15   #16
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,649
Images: 3
Re: NZ and Foreign Flagged Vessels

Quote:
Many of the requirements are valid and represent normal seamanship and boat husbandry. But others are difficult to apply to our form of sailing... things like requiring various certificates of construction and design that rule out home built boats, boats not designed by a recognized authority and so on. And then there is the requirement for specific formal training for skipper and crews... all good stuff, but not in every cruiser's CV. OH yes... the rules require an inboard engine to be fitted... and a trysail and storm jib of high visibility material. And so on...

I see no rule that "requires" an inboard engine.

Most of the NZ stuff is very similar to the RCD CE specifications in teh EU. Very hard to find fault with it, per say.

Dave
__________________

__________________
Check out my new blog on smart boat technology, networking and gadgets for the connected sailor! - http://smartboats.tumblr.com
goboatingnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2013, 09:23   #17
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: PORTUGAL
Posts: 20,226
Images: 2
pirate Re: NZ and Foreign Flagged Vessels

I'm in agreement that an unseaworthy boat should be stopped/delayed from sailing... Boat Alexander for example... at least until more clement weather increases the odds of success of reaching the next country... which is what he's got right now..
However what is being proposed is not feasible...
What they'd gain from fewer SAR's they'd lose in court actions for false impounds and removal off freedom of rights...
but then..... it is a lawyer pushing this agenda..
__________________


Born To Be Wild
boatman61 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2013, 09:24   #18
Registered User
 
Bluewaters2812's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Cruising
Boat: Not a Beneteau!
Posts: 911
Images: 1
Send a message via Skype™ to Bluewaters2812
Re: NZ and Foreign Flagged Vessels

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
I see no rule that "requires" an inboard engine.

Most of the NZ stuff is very similar to the RCD CE specifications in teh EU. Very hard to find fault with it, per say.

Dave
Easy to find fault with it ... it's draconian, overbearing and onerous to the extreme. Way out of 95% of the general sailing community's budget imo. I would never support it full stop. Imagine if every country had similar regs? We wouldn't be able to enter any port. Its ridiculous.
__________________
Bluewaters2812 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2013, 09:25   #19
Senior Cruiser
 
Jim Cate's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 11,471
Re: NZ and Foreign Flagged Vessels

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
I see no rule that "requires" an inboard engine.

Most of the NZ stuff is very similar to the RCD CE specifications in teh EU. Very hard to find fault with it, per say.

Dave

Dave, sec 3.28.1 e sure seems to make such a requirement for Cats one and zero:

3.28 Engines, Generators, Fuel
3.28.1 Propulsion Engines **
a) Engines and associated systems shall be installed in accordance with their
manufacturers’ guidelines and shall be of a type, strength, capacity, and
installation suitable for the size and intended use of the yacht.
**
b) An inboard propulsion engine when fitted shall: be provided with a
permanently installed exhaust, coolant, and fuel supply systems and fuel
tank(s); be securely covered; and have adequate protection from the effects of
heavy weather.
**
c) A propulsion engine required by Special Regulations shall provide a minimum
speed in knots of (1.8 x square root of LWL in metres) or (square root of LWL
in feet)
MoMu0,1,2,3
e) An inboard propulsion engine shall be provided for yachts Mo0,1,2Mu0
3

PErhaps I misinterpret the wording...

Jim
__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II , lying Port Cygnet, Tasmania once again
Jim Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2013, 09:27   #20
Registered User
 
Bluewaters2812's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Cruising
Boat: Not a Beneteau!
Posts: 911
Images: 1
Send a message via Skype™ to Bluewaters2812
Re: NZ and Foreign Flagged Vessels

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Dave, sec 3.28.1 e sure seems to make such a requirement for Cats one and zero:

3.28 Engines, Generators, Fuel
3.28.1 Propulsion Engines **
a) Engines and associated systems shall be installed in accordance with their
manufacturers’ guidelines and shall be of a type, strength, capacity, and
installation suitable for the size and intended use of the yacht.
**
b) An inboard propulsion engine when fitted shall: be provided with a
permanently installed exhaust, coolant, and fuel supply systems and fuel
tank(s); be securely covered; and have adequate protection from the effects of
heavy weather.
**
c) A propulsion engine required by Special Regulations shall provide a minimum
speed in knots of (1.8 x square root of LWL in metres) or (square root of LWL
in feet)
MoMu0,1,2,3
e) An inboard propulsion engine shall be provided for yachts Mo0,1,2Mu0
3

PErhaps I misinterpret the wording...

Jim
I guess the Pardey's won't be visitors to NZ then? Frankly, NZ not doing itself any favours worldwide by even talking about this nonsense.
__________________
Bluewaters2812 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2013, 09:57   #21
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,649
Images: 3
Re: NZ and Foreign Flagged Vessels

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Dave, sec 3.28.1 e sure seems to make such a requirement for Cats one and zero:

3.28 Engines, Generators, Fuel
3.28.1 Propulsion Engines **
a) Engines and associated systems shall be installed in accordance with their
manufacturers’ guidelines and shall be of a type, strength, capacity, and
installation suitable for the size and intended use of the yacht.
**
b) An inboard propulsion engine when fitted shall: be provided with a
permanently installed exhaust, coolant, and fuel supply systems and fuel
tank(s); be securely covered; and have adequate protection from the effects of
heavy weather.
**
c) A propulsion engine required by Special Regulations shall provide a minimum
speed in knots of (1.8 x square root of LWL in metres) or (square root of LWL
in feet)
MoMu0,1,2,3
e) An inboard propulsion engine shall be provided for yachts Mo0,1,2Mu0
3

PErhaps I misinterpret the wording...

Jim
well reading the 2013-2016 safety regulations doesn't seem to mention that.

dave
__________________
Check out my new blog on smart boat technology, networking and gadgets for the connected sailor! - http://smartboats.tumblr.com
goboatingnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2013, 10:01   #22
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,649
Images: 3
Re: NZ and Foreign Flagged Vessels

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluewaters2812 View Post
Easy to find fault with it ... it's draconian, overbearing and onerous to the extreme. Way out of 95% of the general sailing community's budget imo. I would never support it full stop. Imagine if every country had similar regs? We wouldn't be able to enter any port. Its ridiculous.
How so , most of whats there is also in ABYC, and the EU RCD. I accept neither of these are required to be kept "in class".

IN the UK the inland Boat SAfety Scheme has some such similar regulations and an inspection system.

Very little on that list would not be aboard a modern well prepared offshore (blue water as you guys like to rabbit on about).

Equally if you race offshore these requirements are very similar to Offshore Racing Regulations ( actually I suspect this is where NX started from).

AGain Im not in favour of abandoning comity, but at a sane level, little can be criticised in these regs.

dave
__________________
Check out my new blog on smart boat technology, networking and gadgets for the connected sailor! - http://smartboats.tumblr.com
goboatingnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2013, 10:04   #23
Registered User
 
Bluewaters2812's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Cruising
Boat: Not a Beneteau!
Posts: 911
Images: 1
Send a message via Skype™ to Bluewaters2812
Re: NZ and Foreign Flagged Vessels

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
How so , most of whats there is also in ABYC, and the EU RCD. I accept neither of these are required to be kept "in class".

IN the UK the inland Boat SAfety Scheme has some such similar regulations and an inspection system.

Very little on that list would not be aboard a modern well prepared offshore (blue water as you guys like to rabbit on about).

Equally if you race offshore these requirements are very similar to Offshore Racing Regulations ( actually I suspect this is where NX started from).

AGain Im not in favour of abandoning comity, but at a sane level, little can be criticised in these regs.

dave
Let's agree to disagree then. Oh, and the UK is hardly a model to be proud of.
__________________
Bluewaters2812 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2013, 10:16   #24
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: PORTUGAL
Posts: 20,226
Images: 2
pirate Re: NZ and Foreign Flagged Vessels

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluewaters2812 View Post
Let's agree to disagree then. Oh, and the UK is hardly a model to be proud of.
Do tell.....
__________________


Born To Be Wild
boatman61 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2013, 10:18   #25
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,649
Images: 3
Re: NZ and Foreign Flagged Vessels

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluewaters2812
Let's agree to disagree then. Oh, and the UK is hardly a model to be proud of.
Do tell.....
Yes enlighten us

dave
__________________
Check out my new blog on smart boat technology, networking and gadgets for the connected sailor! - http://smartboats.tumblr.com
goboatingnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2013, 10:20   #26
Registered User
 
Bluewaters2812's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Cruising
Boat: Not a Beneteau!
Posts: 911
Images: 1
Send a message via Skype™ to Bluewaters2812
Re: NZ and Foreign Flagged Vessels

Well, for a start, the inland waterways/reservoirs "health & safety" brigade make me want to puke. People in the UK are molly-coddled to death and can't live. They have so many tons of cotton-wool for everyone. I know, I have windsurfed and boated in UK waters. One is too worried about doing anything in case you are in "violation" of some "health & safety" reg. Anyway, enough said, I'm glad I'm outta here.
__________________
Bluewaters2812 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2013, 10:21   #27
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
Re: NZ and Foreign Flagged Vessels

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluewaters2812 View Post
Well, for a start, the inland waterways/reservoirs "health & safety" brigade make me want to puke. People in the UK are molly-coddled to death and can't live. They have so many tons of cotton-wool for everyone. I know, I have windsurfed and boated in UK waters. One is too worried about doing anything in case you are in "violation" of some "health & safety" reg. Anyway, enough said, I'm glad I'm outta here.
Ooooo. that's weak
David_Old_Jersey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2013, 10:22   #28
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,649
Images: 3
Re: NZ and Foreign Flagged Vessels

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluewaters2812 View Post
Well, for a start, the inland waterways/reservoirs "health & safety" brigade make me want to puke. People in the UK are molly-coddled to death and can't live. They have so many tons of cotton-wool for everyone. I know, I have windsurfed and boated in UK waters. One is too worried about doing anything in case you are in "violation" of some "health & safety" reg. Anyway, enough said, I'm glad I'm outta here.
given the virtual complete absence of oversight or rules of anykind for sea based leisure vessels, Im not sure I see your argument here

dave
__________________
Check out my new blog on smart boat technology, networking and gadgets for the connected sailor! - http://smartboats.tumblr.com
goboatingnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2013, 10:23   #29
Registered User
 
Bluewaters2812's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Cruising
Boat: Not a Beneteau!
Posts: 911
Images: 1
Send a message via Skype™ to Bluewaters2812
Re: NZ and Foreign Flagged Vessels

Quote:
Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
Ooooo. that's week
I'm sure you meant weak? Not sure many people would regard that as "weak". I hate "health & safety" the way it is followed in the UK.
__________________
Bluewaters2812 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2013, 10:27   #30
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
Re: NZ and Foreign Flagged Vessels

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluewaters2812 View Post
I'm sure you meant weak? Not sure many people would regard that as "weak". I hate "health & safety" the way it is followed in the UK.
Yeah, weak - I got it right first time, changed it , then realised it was wrong and changed it back .

I guess your response a way of not getting into specifics?
__________________

David_Old_Jersey is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:38.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.