Not a Resident of Anywhere Buy My Boat

[hellosailor]

Some folks like to mix arguements, I like to split 'em.

Like income tax and SS. One can argue the concept is good or bad, legal or not, but the question of the rates is something else. And whether there's a better way to do it, a third argument.

So, you say cruisers are too rich to get back the money they were forced to lend the federal government. That's one argument, where to set the cut-off amount.

But as any VietCong could tell you, all a man needs to eat, hike, fight, live for a whole month is twenty pounds of rice and whatever else he can scavenge. And enough fuel to boil water once a day, the other two meals are perfectly good cold.

Gonna have a hard time selling that to the voters, though. You may be able to befuddle them with all the logic about everything else, but what it comes down to what they're gonna get out of it, they'll come after you with pitchforks and torches if you say "20 lbs. of rice per month. All you get is five dollars."

[Capt Phil]

Social Security has turned into the biggest 'ponzi' scheme since Bernie Maddoff went to the big house. I worked my whole life paying into it along with my employer who paid the govt in lieu of paying into a retirement scheme for me so it was always intended to be a retirement fund until President Johnson saw this whole pile of cash sitting there in the 'lock box' and tapped it for financing the deficit run in the general tax fund. Since then every govt in power, Republican and Democrat, treated it like their own piggy bank and screwed the retirees. Current retirees SS payments are now funded by their kids paying in to a fund that will never support them in their retirement. It sucks to be old but sucks even more to be paying into a sytem that will never support you. Capt Phil

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Shull.

[Boatguy30]

thanks Phil, that's basically the point. I believe asset testing recipients is one way to make the system survive. Can a guy like Warren Buffet or John McCain get buy without that that check?

Of course I suppose plenty will stash there cash offshore and claim to be poor, but clearly some measures need to be put in place to protect those of under 55.

Sadly, unless our voter turnout improves as a group, its hard to see any truly progressive reforms happening. I guess we'll eventually be rewarded with the high turnout numbers, but who knows what things will be like in 30-40 years.

My street already floods at some high tides! but a dike up A1A from Miami to Maine would be a hell of a stimulus project.

[Capt Phil]

I believe when the 30 and 40 year olds realize they and their employers, on their behalf, are paying into a plan that will never provide them with a benefit, there will be a wholesale political response to change to a system of greater equity. Unfortunately, like all of these government boondoggles, they start with the best of intentions and degenerate into a money grab to spend on something that will provide immediate votes for the incumbents.
The sad fact is that those who screwed up the system, retire, have a post office named after them and are forgotten. Their legacy of lies, financial mismanagement and hugh government debt lives on for decades. Capt Phil

[Cheechako]

Most all govt "services", including the military are "underfunded". I dont know why people pick out SS or the Post Office to bitch about. Both of them take in a large percentage of the money that goes out. Does the Military, FBI, OMB, State Dept or other branches do that? NO. Does sending billions to foreign countries really reward us? NO. Susidizing tobacco and oil companies pay? NO.
Citizens ought tro get something for their money/taxes.....

[Boatguy30]

You heard it here first "The military is doing fine".

[svlamorocha]

Originally Posted by Minggat

Thanks for the comments.
Not clear on the difference between a permanent resident and a domicilery. .

This is just an approximation but probably good enough:
The expression "Permanent residence" seems to be used mostly in the US; people tend to use it to mean something like domicile in the English and Continental legal sense (ie long term intent and most importantly you always have one and you cannot have more than one. ). According to Wikipedia (whatever that is worth) domicile and permanent residency are the same thing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domicile_(law). When you move from being a proper landlubber to being "a resident of anywhere but your boat") your domicile stays unchanged.

All this is as opposed to plain "residence" of which you may have none (as when you are "a resident of anywhere but your boat") or you may have more than one (as when you spend half the year in one house and the other half in another).

[hellosailor]

"Not clear on the difference between a permanent resident and a domicilery"
The relevant difference, if any, will be defined BY the venue you are located in, and it will be the only legally binding definition FOR THAT VENUE.
In the US alone that gives us some 61 potentially different definitions, for the states and possessions. Most are probably the same, but Louisiana follows Napoleanic Code in many matters while Floriduh goes back to Spain, contrary to the English laws that most of the US follow. And no doubt the IRS and other US federal organizations have their own definitions.

[jeremiason]

Originally Posted by Boatguy30

Yes, exactly. Its meant to help the old folks from being too poor and dying in the street. I was putting a bit of a free market spin on it with the spending on services and products, etc so we can all feel better about it.

My original point was, if you "well off" enough to be globe trotting around by whatever means you prefer; you are well beyond the scope of those originally intended to be "secured"

Several other countries take this into account. If you don't live there, they don't pay. One could make the argument, they are POOR and living on a derelict boat in the third world since they are so poor and they have "paid in" In this case, I believe you need to haul ass back to the US and park said derelict boat south of the 312 bridge in St Augustine so some of that money will be coming back into our local economy.

Anyway you look at it; absent of asset testing benefits for current retires, its all a doomed PONZI scheme for someone my age.

Cheers,
Jeff

Jeff:

I am one of those guys who is "Globe Trotting" around the world... I was fortunate enought to pick a profession that allowed me to retire young with a very good pension, as long as I don't live in California, where I lived and worked until I was 50.

I also don't own a car, a house, pay auto insurance, electric bills, water bills, cable bills or state taxes. My only expenses are the boat, food and entertainment or in other words I am living a nice life with much smaller expenses.

For most people, even the ones with good retirement packages, end up retiring with an income 25-50% lower than what they made when they were working. But they still have the same bills and expenses, except for the lucky few who paid off their homes before retirement.

When we retired, I moved my residence to Flordia and saved over $12,000 a year in California State and local taxes! Then another $12k in medical insurance premiumsn annually...

Your idea that people globe trotting should not get social security retirement is frankly way off base... Since most of the ones cruising paid into the system for there whole life, are actually living within their means and no burden on the goverment.

Ex Pats, pay their taxes and receive nothing in return, except maybe Consulate support (All of which have fees attached, except advice)

We also receive medical care in our host countries at a fraction of the cost of what we would pay in the USA. In Mexico, my wife had a throat infection and visited the doctor. A 30 minute physical exam, 2 weeks of antibiotics, cough syrup and even asprin... Total cost $5 US. Oh and by the way the Doctor Graduated from the Univeristy of Texas.

If we choose to take permenent reisdent in Mexico (Their version of a green card) we would be charged $300 per year for medical insurance for each person.

On the other hand, currently under social security disablilty, alcoholism is a permenant disability! Yes, alcoholics, on or off the wagon, receive monthly disablity checks no matter what their age. There are many other people drawing social security, before their time, which is one of the reasons the system is being bled dry.

Before you start cuting people off who earned their Social Security benefits, maybe you should start with the ones that haven't earned it or have taken advantage of it and cut them off.

The United States is going to implode one day on its own political correctness. Everyone has their hand out and more are coming through the door everyday. Christ even prisoners and illegal aleins have more rights than the average US Citizen.

We are no longer one country of Amercians, but a collection of individuals separated by race, religion, political and ethnic backgrounds, all of which want there share of the pie. Politicos are making descisions not on what is right, but who screams the loudest, provides the most money or has the most sympathy.

These days it is easier to send a billion dollars to Iraq than it is to spend money on American Citizens for education or medical care.

We cannot keep being the world's bank, babysitter and policeman, while our own US Citizens suffer and continue pay taxes for services that are forever being cut or reduced!

[Boatguy30]

I Hope certainly that is not a pension funded in anyway by CAlifornia taxpayers! My parents are state retirees from Illinois. They also live in FL. I think IL is at least entitled to tax the pension they receive to help provide services to current citizens of the state.

That's the real problem here. Absent of some unimaginable innovation thos of us younger folks are going to work and slave for the next 40 years to pay for the benefits the retired think they paid into and deserve. The reality is most of the money paid is is already long gone, but they vote in huge numbers.

I truly fair approach would be to cut an equal amount from everyone including any current retires. The average couple retiring today at 65 will receive $350,000 in Medicare benefits, but have only " paid in" $150000. who's going to make up that difference?

[hellosailor]

Jeff-
"Several other countries take this into account. If you don't live there, they don't pay. "
Bear in mind that all doors swing two ways. In many countries, if you don't live there, they don't tax your income, either. Ex-pats get to make their own choice, non-residents and residents get to make choices as well. You can't take one slice off government policies and judge it in a vacuum. You can't buy it that way. You only get the whole package, or not.

The US may pay your benefits while you are in Timbuktu, but the US also will tax every cent you make while you're there.

[Kettlewell]

Some states/cities also have boat registration requirements even if your boat stays out side the state, assuming the local govt knows about the boat.

This is incorrect. State boat registration is based on where your boat is located, not who owns the boat. Yes, most if not all states allow your boat registered in another state to be in the new state for a grace period, usually 60 or 90 days. But, at the end of the grace period you are supposed to reregister in the new state. In other words, even though I am a resident of New York, if I keep my boat in Florida it should be registered in Florida.

And, someone earlier pointed out that your domicile does not change until you establish a new domicile. Here's a quote from a tax attorney's web site:

What is Domicile?
The term “domicile” means the place where the taxpayer has his or her true, fixed, permanent home. It is defined as “the principal establishment to which the taxpayer intends to return whenever absent.” A taxpayer may have several residences and maintain resident status in multiple states, but can have only one domicile. This distinction is critical for tax purposes because a domiciliary is automatically considered to be a resident and, as mentioned above, New York residents are taxed on worldwide income. In order to attain the status of a non-resident, the taxpayer must first take significant steps to facilitate a change in domicile. Due to the importance of domicile for tax purposes, the taxpayer must prove with convincing evidence that such changes have occurred.

How is Domicile Determined?
Domicile is determined from all of the facts and circumstances, but intention is the decisive factor in the determination of whether a residence is a domicile. A taxpayer’s intention is expressed through his/her actions and statements. Under the New York nonresident audit guidelines, the process of resolving domicile is a case-by-case inquiry, which depends on the particular facts. As a result, there are a number of factors that can affect the final determination of a taxpayer’s domicile and any actions or statements by the taxpayer can be used as evidence of intention. Of course, if the taxpayer has completely terminated ties with his or her old state, then the change can be evidenced without much difficulty. If, however, ties are continued with the old state, then the possibility exists that the taxpayer may be considered as domiciled in the old state, considering the onerous burden on taxpayers to produce credible evidence of a change in domicile.

[Greenhand]

Alcoholism as a disability? The gubmint taxes everything you earn abroad? Does anyone here actually have any interest in facts?

There are a number of alcohol related medical conditions which are debilitating and treated as such, but alcoholism itself will not get you a check.

You are required to report all of your income, but that does not mean that all of it is taxed. As a matter of fact, ~90k can be excluded if you establish residency in a foreign country. That is 90k dollars, which adds up to a whole lot of cents.

[cburger]

So many cruising folk use S.B.I. that during my first couple of years of active cruising in the Bahamas and Caribbean I was amazed at the number of cruisers whose boat cards listed "Green Cove Springs" (home town of S.B.I.) as their address. I thought - gee, that is one town that spawns a lot of cruisers. Then it was explained to me that the services of S.B.I. are "second to none" and getting better every year.

What does it cost?