New Zealand Immigration Officer Making Wild Claims

[LBW399]

Originally Posted by Delfin

Maybe I lead a sheltered life, but I just haven't experienced that. I pay a state excise tax once a year, which in my state is how they pay the bills because we don't have a state income tax. I've been boarded by the Coast Guard a few times, but mostly in the winter when they are bored and want something to do. I don't need a license of any kind, and like I said, other than basic safety equipment (including fire extinguishers, which I forgot), you're treated quite deferentially by the odd official you run into. I really just can't think of any imposition I've encountered in 30 years of being on the water most of the time.

Course, maybe they're afraid to mess with me because they may know I carry enough firepower on board to take over most small South American countries... Speaking of which, should I leave my mini-gun home if I visit New Zealand?

Right. So you are saying that apart from basic safety equipment, and the usual not chucking your number twos over too near the shore--then that's the extent of it?
Well, I do believe I have been led up the garden path as I thought there were more regulations on boat owners than you could shake a stick at.
Until someone comes along to refute what you are saying, I bow to your local knowledge and apologise to all US yachties that fart to windward in total freedom.

[atoll]

Originally Posted by Kiwi399

Not quite sure where you are coming from? You agree with me that he is taking the mick or not?

If you are talking about letting him go if his boat is not up to scratch? Bill Sellers already won that case a number of years ago (his boat was up to scratch sans liferaft). I could not care less if he had glory holes all over his boat and played russian roulette with sharks.
If he wasn't an overstayer then the state of his boat would not be have even come into the picture.
The guy is more of a sailor than me, and more of a sailor than probably most whom post on this board whom post from a comfy chair with a cup of tea and a heater to warm the legs.
However, he is also an overstayer--and as such should be deported immediately. They are being generous in giving him time to fix his boat up a bit. I know what woud happen to me if I was in the States and overstayed my welcome.

bill and christine on nimrod are friends who i have met on numerous occasions all over the world whilst sailing,i would hardly put them in the same catagory!

but 10 out of 10 for the kiwis giving this guy a chance,i would hate to be the guy that issued him a clarance certificate,only to be blamed for letting him go to sea in a boat held together with bits of string,when in had the power to assist him from making an ill advised departure in the depths of winter

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by atoll

......i cite the case of a catamaran that had to leave fiji recently after being damaged on a reef,and nearly foundering on its way to vanuatu,being forced to leave for overstaying,before proper repairs were completed .
perhaps someone can find that thread and post a link

The link is:
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ost-93384.html

Pete has just reached Darwin.

[LBW399]

Originally Posted by atoll

bill and christine on nimrod are friends who i have met on numerous occasions all over the world whilst sailing,i would hardly put them in the same catagory!

but 10 out of 10 for the kiwis giving this guy a chance,i would hate to be the guy that issued him a clarance certificate,only to be blamed for letting him go to sea in a boat held together with bits of string,when in had the power to assist him from making an ill advised departure in the depths of winter

NIMROD? NIMBUS was his boat I thought, if I remember rightly? Maybe he got a new boat. I read about it years ago so could be wrong.
Absolutely not putting Bill in this guy's catergory, not even close.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Kiwi399

Right. So you are saying that apart from basic safety equipment, and the usual not chucking your number twos over too near the shore--then that's the extent of it?
Well, I do believe I have been led up the garden path as I thought there were more regulations on boat owners than you could shake a stick at.
Until someone comes along to refute what you are saying, I bow to your local knowledge and apologise to all US yachties that fart to windward in total freedom.

This poster is obviously not current with his rule book. In order to legally fart to windward in the USA you must:

File an environmental impact assessment with the EPA

Hire an approved technician to measure local air quality prior to initial farting, and then each hour after the event for a total of 7 days.

Equip your crew and any innocent bystanders with supplied air respirators, approved by the Bureau of Mines for toxic atmosphere usage.

Insure that all appliances are certified for use in explosive atmospheres.

Have your skippers license endorsed for operation of lighter than air vehicles in case the accumulated gasses provide sufficient lift to become airborne.

Have full instrumentation for determining exactly which direction "to windward" is. Farting in an unapproved direction is an offense not covered by your primary permit, should it ever be issued.

You must file a certificate attesting that you do not discriminate in farting locations, based on religion, sex or ethnic origin.

The above list is for satisfying Federal statutes. Individual states may have additional requirements and counties and municipalities also may have regulations that apply.

Bureaucracies are alive and well in the good ole USA...

Cheers,

Jim

[Delfin]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

This poster is obviously not current with his rule book. In order to legally fart to windward in the USA you must:

File an environmental impact assessment with the EPA

Hire an approved technician to measure local air quality prior to initial farting, and then each hour after the event for a total of 7 days.

Equip your crew and any innocent bystanders with supplied air respirators, approved by the Bureau of Mines for toxic atmosphere usage.

Insure that all appliances are certified for use in explosive atmospheres.

Have your skippers license endorsed for operation of lighter than air vehicles in case the accumulated gasses provide sufficient lift to become airborne.

Have full instrumentation for determining exactly which direction "to windward" is. Farting in an unapproved direction is an offense not covered by your primary permit, should it ever be issued.

You must file a certificate attesting that you do not discriminate in farting locations, based on religion, sex or ethnic origin.

The above list is for satisfying Federal statutes. Individual states may have additional requirements and counties and municipalities also may have regulations that apply.

Bureaucracies are alive and well in the good ole USA...

Cheers,

Jim

Oh dear. I had no idea.

Do I apply for the permit through the FFA? (Federal Flatulence Authority)

I believe Congressman Frank is the ranking minority member in the relevant House committee providing oversight of the FFA...

Did Barney Frank fart on Maddow show? - YouTube

[LBW399]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

This poster is obviously not current with his rule book. In order to legally fart to windward in the USA you must:

File an environmental impact assessment with the EPA

Hire an approved technician to measure local air quality prior to initial farting, and then each hour after the event for a total of 7 days.

Equip your crew and any innocent bystanders with supplied air respirators, approved by the Bureau of Mines for toxic atmosphere usage.

Insure that all appliances are certified for use in explosive atmospheres.

Have your skippers license endorsed for operation of lighter than air vehicles in case the accumulated gasses provide sufficient lift to become airborne.

Have full instrumentation for determining exactly which direction "to windward" is. Farting in an unapproved direction is an offense not covered by your primary permit, should it ever be issued.

You must file a certificate attesting that you do not discriminate in farting locations, based on religion, sex or ethnic origin.

The above list is for satisfying Federal statutes. Individual states may have additional requirements and counties and municipalities also may have regulations that apply.

Bureaucracies are alive and well in the good ole USA...

Cheers,

Jim

LMAO

[charliehows]

[QUOTE=Bluewaters2812;1276882]Yip, but that isn't the point. It is unacceptable anywhere in the world for an official to act outside of his legal authority and we should ALWAYS stand against it.


in the words of tonto as the injuns closed in "what you mean 'we', white man?"

[charliehows]

this evil nanny state has forced a free $5000 refit on this poor freedom loving individual, withheld his international passport rights after only 18 months of extensions, how can we fight against this kind of evil? Citizens of the world, flock to NZ in your unseaworthy vessels and make a free, state sponsored stand for your rights and the rights of all free thinking people!!

[Delfin]

Originally Posted by charliehows

this evil nanny state has forced a free $5000 refit on this poor freedom loving individual, withheld his international passport rights after only 18 months of extensions, how can we fight against this kind of evil? Citizens of the world, flock to NZ in your unseaworthy vessels and make a free, state sponsored stand for your rights and the rights of all free thinking people!!

Sic semper tyrannnis!!

[svseachange]

Originally Posted by Kiwi399

Until someone comes along to refute what you are saying, I bow to your local knowledge and apologise to all US yachties that fart to windward in total freedom.

Kiwis are fun to make fun of but NZ regs are mild compared to the ridiculous, inconsistent patchwork of bureaucracy applied across the US to foreign registered vessels.

Our boat carries Australian registration and is marked as such and we have the US CBP decal but most authorities have been more interested is seeing our old
Minnesota registration.

We have even been told by state officials in MI and OH that our boat "is required to have US state registration" after showing them our Australian ships papers. Even though this is ridiculous we pull out our old MN registration to appease them. They are all very nice, but just don't know how to deal with non-state registered boats.

Every time we enter a new state we are expected to buy a new fishing license. We will probably pay far more in fishing licenses in the US than the infamous Aussie quarantine fee...

And worse yet, every time we move a few hundred miles, the Customs and Border Patrol, Coast Guard and State Officials have new rules or new interpretations of federal rules.

Do we even need to talk about the US immigration system? The OP would have either been out on his ear or in immigration detention (prison) had he been caught overstaying his visa here.

I don't think there is another country in the world that applies such a convoluted, disorganized set of rules and regulations on foreign pleasure vessels. At least Australia and New Zealand have their acts together and apply the law fairly consistently.

[Piglet]

I like how they threw in some bottom paint to sweeten the deal of getting the boat on the hard. And the fact that they are paying for the tri-color as well as the installation does not compute in my American mind. I cannot imagine that happening here. I could see some yachties here maybe pitching in to help a guy out, but our government giving something away to someone who broke the law? LOL!

[Delfin]

Originally Posted by shanedennis

Kiwis are fun to make fun of but NZ regs are mild compared to the ridiculous, inconsistent patchwork of bureaucracy applied across the US to foreign registered vessels.

Our boat carries Australian registration and is marked as such and we have the US CBP decal but most authorities have been more interested is seeing our old
Minnesota registration.

We have even been told by state officials in MI and OH that our boat "is required to have US state registration" after showing them our Australian ships papers. Even though this is ridiculous we pull out our old MN registration to appease them. They are all very nice, but just don't know how to deal with non-state registered boats.

Every time we enter a new state we are expected to buy a new fishing license. We will probably pay far more in fishing licenses in the US than the infamous Aussie quarantine fee...

And worse yet, every time we move a few hundred miles, the Customs and Border Control, Coast Guard and State Officials have new rules or new interpretations of federal rules.

Do we even need to talk about the US immigration system? The OP would have either been out on his ear or in immigration detention (prison) had he been caught overstaying his visa here.

I don't think there is another country in the world that applies such a convoluted, disorganized set of rules and regulations on foreign pleasure vessels. At least Australia and New Zealand have their acts together and apply the law fairly consistently.

So, you need a state fishing license in each state and have to show your Minnesota state registration to befuddled officials. Anything else that inconvenienced you? And could you give an example of how your freedom of movement was impinged upon by regulations? I'm not saying they weren't, I'm just looking for specifics, since I only have experience with Washington State as a citizen. Here, if you're documented out of the state, they couldn't care less if you have state registration. And frankly, I've only met up with one state official who threatened me with a fine if I didn't buy a license for my Boston Whaler. I promised, so he let me go without a ticket. I see lots of Fish and Game guys buzzing around, but so far, never met one in person.

One thing that does confuse visitors is our state/federal system. The best way to look at it is to think of each state as potentially another country, who may have their own rules. This arrangement isn't really so much to be convenient for visitors, as to ensure that Texas doesn't have to be as effed up as Michigan, unless they choose to.

[svseachange]

Originally Posted by Delfin

So, you need a state fishing license in each state and have to show your Minnesota state registration to befuddled officials. Anything else that inconvenienced you? And could you give an example of how your freedom of movement was impinged upon by regulations? I'm not saying they weren't, I'm just looking for specifics

Some examples of inconvenience?
1. Missing a great weather window and waiting another week because a CBP office requested I register with SVRS before departing to another US port. (A made up requirement because SVRS is supposed to be voluntary and we were not leaving and returning to US waters.)
2. Getting stopped by CBP officers three times in twenty four hours.
3. Not knowing how the law is going to be applied from one day to the next is a major inconvenience.
4. Finding places to buy the fishing licenses is an inconvenience. Paying for them is also inconvenient.

I have no doubt our freedom to move around the US would be curtailed if we were anything less than respectful and compliant when dealing with federal and state law enforcement.

And I am totally OK with that - this is your country. Similarly, the OP needs to be respectful and compliant when dealing with Kiwi officials.

Don't get me wrong, I love the USA and I understand how it works and why it works the way it does. I am just making the point it is at least equally hard for Aussies and Kiwis to comply with US regulations as it is for US citizens to comply with Aussie and Kiwi regulations.

[Piglet]

FWIW you can purchase a lot of States fishing licenses over the interwebz.