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Old 08-07-2013, 04:08   #646
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Re: New Zealand Immigration Officer Making Wild Claims

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Enlightenment is sorely needed.
No problem at all with the boat or for that matter even the visa. Point of fact I have respect for his ability to get here and considerable technical skill.

But having just been given many thousands of dollars free taxpayer assistance (check Ashby's rates just for what it costs to haul out and then sit in the travelift for days at a stretch, ignoring the labour and hardware), according to BA we have a further moral obligation to provide him with a rescue service; and that in setting immigration standards, the community currently fixing his boat for him is "selfish".
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Old 08-07-2013, 05:15   #647
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Re: New Zealand Immigration Officer Making Wild Claims

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nz is actually not the easiest place to leave from,with quite a small weather window between the end of the spac cyclone season,april,and the onset of the southern hemisphere winter may-june,the loss of nina and other vessels on a fairly regular basis high lights this,unless you are happy sailing in less than optimal conditions
Stay up with the conversation. I was refering to an earlier comment about being caught in a tough financial situation, not if it's possible to leave NZ.
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Old 08-07-2013, 05:31   #648
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Re: New Zealand Immigration Officer Making Wild Claims

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Stay up with the conversation. I was refering to an earlier comment about being caught in a tough financial situation, not if it's possible to leave NZ.
on that note,their is a reciprocal work visa system in place for kiwis in the uk and vice versa this is one of the reasons nz is so popular with the young folk.

unfortunately the us gov is not quite as farsighted,and makes it quite difficult to work legally,im sure if the op had had the oppertunity to work legally he would not be in the situation he is in now.
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Old 08-07-2013, 05:40   #649
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Re: New Zealand Immigration Officer Making Wild Claims

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I agree with the O.P. on immigration. Think about it for a minute... As the laws stand in most western countries today if you are a poor person you have a snowballs chance of ever seeing the world. Comfortable and white and middle class ? No worries mate.

Is this right?

The younger generation that some say are selfish etc. are also a lot less nationalistic in their views and have a lot less fear of the other. I mean you would not get this generation to sign up and give their lives away like their great,great granddaddies did in 1914 i am sure.
This thing here the interwebz is the most likely the fault, people have a sense of community that today has no boundaries.

I have been disgusted by the lack of generosity of spirit shown here by some. I mean we all can read rules and regulations and are aware of the consequences of breaking the rules are.
The Kafkaesque nature of a lot of what governments require of people to do the right thing is truly bizarre in some instances. Ask me how I know.

This guy and his antics will not make it harder for others to cruise. Bureaucracies will make rules regardless of what you may do and how righteous you feel when upholding them.The rules will not get less, never.

This guy has accomplished more than a lot of cashed up padded armchair naysayers here would achieve.You may not like the way he is going about things, but i for one think this may be the attitude taken by more and more young people who have thought deeply about the world they live in today.
Immigration: Change it to moving into your house or onto your boat and you don't have any say about it and tell me you will feel the same way. There is a difference between having equal opportunity and having equal outcome.

Younger Generation: Nothing different about this generation from past generations. With the exception of the occasional 60 yr old guy with a pony tail, the vast majority of hippies settled down, put on a suit and got a job once they grew up. It's the same with every generations, they are idealistic when young. Back at the time of WWI and WWII, that idealistic nature was channeled into a greater cause.

Making it harder to cruise: I don't want to be insulting but you are very simple minded if you think this won't have an impact. It may not be some watershed moment but it adds to the justification.

Accomplishment: What exactly has this guy accomplished, other than taking advantage of the system? This is akin to someone jumping off a bridge to commit suicide and dumb luck he happens to survive with no injury, so we should believe the guy "accomplished" the greatest jump in history?
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Old 08-07-2013, 06:35   #650
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Re: New Zealand Immigration Officer Making Wild Claims

While the OP has been treated rather generously by the kiwis , with his attitude he is bound to run up against a much less forgiving country on his journey and pay the price. I fully expect in the months or years to come see a thread trying to drum up support to get him released from some awful prison somewhere.
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Old 08-07-2013, 06:41   #651
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Re: New Zealand Immigration Officer Making Wild Claims

I will remind you that the o.p. was ready to leave of his own volition, he was delayed by the authorities.
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Old 08-07-2013, 06:47   #652
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Re: New Zealand Immigration Officer Making Wild Claims

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I will remind you that the o.p. was ready to leave of his own volition, he was delayed by the authorities.
He was "ready to leave" on the 19th of June - his visa expired in late
January/early February. Had matters been the other way round my attitude would be very different.
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Old 08-07-2013, 09:15   #653
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Re: New Zealand Immigration Officer Making Wild Claims

A)
OP was not stopped on the basis of expired visa. He was stopped on the basis of his boat apparently being unseaworthy. (This is what OP said in his posts). NZ made an arbitrary asessment of a US flagged (?) ship's seaworthines using their set of regulations that apparently do not apply to foreign flagged leisure craft.

B)
If Kiwi taxpayers think saving sailors' lives costs them too much, then Kiwi taxpayer should ask his representative to write a bill which asks for NZ to reject the conventions they signed some time ago. That's that.

C)
Why is it I always hear this 'to expensive to rescue FOREIGN SAILORS' from a general direction of where Aotearoa is? Why I never read such dumb comments coming from US, UK or French press?

b.
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Old 08-07-2013, 09:39   #654
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Re: New Zealand Immigration Officer Making Wild Claims

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Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
Why is it I always hear this 'to expensive to rescue FOREIGN SAILORS' from a general direction of where Aotearoa is? Why I never read such dumb comments coming from US, UK or French press?

b.
For the UK you will read plenty of comments about not paying for dumbass people. on boats or not! Nationality irrelevant. Have a look at The BNP Yacht Club.com

Me can barely read a menu in French, so no idea what they think of foreigners being rescued - in any event they charge locals for rescue (rules not straightforward, I forget the details), so pretty sure they also charge the foreigners!

In the US maybe they don't realise that foreigners have boats?
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Old 08-07-2013, 10:17   #655
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Re: New Zealand Immigration Officer Making Wild Claims

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In the US maybe they don't realise that foreigners have boats?
Well of course they do! They run drugs over in them, right? Plus, we keep fishing some of them out of the Straits, stopping their invasion via the tire-&-scrap wood armada!


(It's early...if sarcasm detectors are still waiting on the coffee ... I'm Kidding!)
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Old 08-07-2013, 10:28   #656
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Re: New Zealand Immigration Officer Making Wild Claims

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Well of course they do! They run drugs over in them, right? Plus, we keep fishing some of them out of the Straits, stopping their invasion via the tire-&-scrap wood armada!


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Old 08-07-2013, 14:04   #657
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Re: New Zealand Immigration Officer Making Wild Claims

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Originally Posted by salticrak View Post
I will remind you that the o.p. was ready to leave of his own volition, he was delayed by the authorities.
The OP SAYS he was ready to leave, but it sounds like he was trying to be one step ahead of the authorities because he was an illegal immigrant and knew the authorities were on to him. The immigration authorities wanted him to leave but couldn't order him to leave on an unseaworthy vessel (in case it then foundered and they got sued by an overly litigious next of kin of an illegal immigrant) so they made sure the vessel got inspected and was in some kind of seaworthy state. Once the state of the vessel was established then the authorities could order him to leave on the vessel.

If you believe the whole "I was trying to leave but the mean nasty man from immigration stopped me" thing then I've got a bridge you might be interested in buying.

And for the record, I have no issue at all with the guy sailing around the world on the smell of an oily rag. Its not the way everyone wants to do it, and I'm sure there are times when it's not easy but he's out there doing what he wants to do on his own terms. The caveat is, if you're going to do that, don't break the laws of the country you've entered of your own volition and then whinge like a little girl when you get caught out.
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Old 08-07-2013, 15:57   #658
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Re: New Zealand Immigration Officer Making Wild Claims

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on that note,their is a reciprocal work visa system in place for kiwis in the uk and vice versa this is one of the reasons nz is so popular with the young folk.

unfortunately the us gov is not quite as farsighted,and makes it quite difficult to work legally,im sure if the op had had the oppertunity to work legally he would not be in the situation he is in now.
Hi At the moment here in Northland where Opua is has one of the highest shortages of work in NZ ,there is not enough work for locals let alone bloody bluddgers like he is.
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Old 08-07-2013, 16:05   #659
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Re: New Zealand Immigration Officer Making Wild Claims

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Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
A)
OP was not stopped on the basis of expired visa. He was stopped on the basis of his boat apparently being unseaworthy. (This is what OP said in his posts). NZ made an arbitrary asessment of a US flagged (?) ship's seaworthines using their set of regulations that apparently do not apply to foreign flagged leisure craft.

B)
If Kiwi taxpayers think saving sailors' lives costs them too much, then Kiwi taxpayer should ask his representative to write a bill which asks for NZ to reject the conventions they signed some time ago. That's that.

C)
Why is it I always hear this 'to expensive to rescue FOREIGN SAILORS' from a general direction of where Aotearoa is? Why I never read such dumb comments coming from US, UK or French press?

b.
Why dont you hear it coming from UK & French press,look at the charts most of the traffic is in the English channel ,people swim it they dont have a tenth of the worlds sea to patrol & go looking like we did just now for the Nina.As far as the USA is concerned maybe a few US sailors can answer that one for you.
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Old 08-07-2013, 16:09   #660
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Thumbs up Re: New Zealand Immigration Officer Making Wild Claims

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The OP SAYS he was ready to leave, but it sounds like he was trying to be one step ahead of the authorities because he was an illegal immigrant and knew the authorities were on to him. The immigration authorities wanted him to leave but couldn't order him to leave on an unseaworthy vessel (in case it then foundered and they got sued by an overly litigious next of kin of an illegal immigrant) so they made sure the vessel got inspected and was in some kind of seaworthy state. Once the state of the vessel was established then the authorities could order him to leave on the vessel.

If you believe the whole "I was trying to leave but the mean nasty man from immigration stopped me" thing then I've got a bridge you might be interested in buying.

And for the record, I have no issue at all with the guy sailing around the world on the smell of an oily rag. Its not the way everyone wants to do it, and I'm sure there are times when it's not easy but he's out there doing what he wants to do on his own terms. The caveat is, if you're going to do that, don't break the laws of the country you've entered of your own volition and then whinge like a little girl when you get caught out.
Once more well said could not have put it better myself.
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