New Zealand Immigration Officer Making Wild Claims

[ternmarine]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Perhaps I missed it and some kind soul can point me back to it:

Where does anything show that the OP overstayed his visa and then came to the attention of authorities, as opposed to his initial presentation saying that authorities forced hinm to remain in NZ, after which visa questions arose?

I'm not seeing it. Message numbers?

#528 finally

[pdf27]

Originally Posted by ternmarine

#528 finally

See also #390 - the official form where the immigration officer agrees to an inspection and rapid departure as an alternative to arresting and deporting the OP.

[pdf27]

Originally Posted by boat_alexandra

I am going to try my best to stop posting political views and instead just report facts as I experience so that others may benefit and understand the situation in new zealand especially bay of islands. The main thing to be noted, is if you break any law, (including overstaying visa for a few months even if you are denied an extension for storm season as I was) then all the other rules become defenestrated and they can do whatever they want with you and/or your boat.

Indeed. TBH I think you've been very lucky here - arrest, deportation and multi-year bans are actually pretty common for visa overstayers.

I should point out here that I'm experiencing the other side of the visa system here in the UK, going through the process of allowing my American wife to stay with me. The whole process is going to take about 3 years and $5,000, as well as being extremely intrusive. One of the reasons for this is people trying to short-circuit the system, overstaying visas and generally ignoring the rules.

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by Delfin

For someone who seems genuinely committed to freedom you should have more faith in free markets. Thousands of vessels visit and leave NZ each year without complaint. Some might even welcome the Kiwis commitment to safety since they are the beneficiaries. If their rules were as draconian as some suggest who would visit there? Not so good for the yacht service industry, I should think. When people draw lines in the sand in the face of common sense, they are ignored as crackpots, and rightly so.

My advice is that if you feel the idea of vessel inspection before setting across the Tasman in the winter is a violation of fundamental human rights don't go to New Zealand. I doubt they'll miss you.

New Zealand is a great place I have been there many times both by air and yacht. Don't let the current regulations stop you visiting.

The requirment for foreign yachts to meet Cat 1 regulations has been dropped although I think the cruising community needs to maintain its opposition to prevent its re-introduction.

There was some concern expressed for the excellent NZ boat service industry when the Cat 1 requirements were briefly introduced.

Originally Posted by Steve Pope

It took an American yacht owner who took the NZ authorities to court when the marine bureaucrats attempted to make "all" departing yachts / boats comply with the Category one rules changed to only have it apply to NZ registered yachts. As far as I know the law change was only put in obeyance. Foreign yachties and all NZ yachting businesses have him to thank as the end result had it been enacted would have a huge reduction in visiting yachts and the death of the foreign yacht service industry.

If the Cat 1 requirment was re-introduced I think my current boat would comply reasonably easily without any major structural changes. Still I would expect inspection and compliance costs would be be in the order of several thousand dollars. That would not stop me going, but if this principal was extended to all countries I visited it would become untenable.

[TeddyDiver]

Originally Posted by Intuitive

Actually no. Being hostaged in jail (as you put it) - or rather risking it - was in this instance due to the individual in question overstaying his visa as I understand it. I think you'll find that's standard practise pretty much anywhere.

I wasn't so much commenting about this particular case, merely the argument of 'rescuers endangering their lives searching after unseaforthy boats and sailors' which is IMO a bit different case.
What comes to this individual he seems to be a 'free spirit' not worrying much of compliance to any rule what so ever. Just looking to his previous OP's in this forum..
BR Teddy

[Delfin]

Originally Posted by boat_alexandra

The official surveyor (the other guy I spoke of before was unofficial I didn't know at the time) turned out to have circumnavigated on an engine free 30ft wooden boat.

He said I have to drop my rudder, and check it for any problems, and fix them, then install an adequate tricolor on top of the mast then I'm free to go. All services tools materials and costs are free. This includes even wiring for the light as well as the light itself. Also included I have been given 4 liters of bottom paint to complete 2 coats.

As far as I can see it, 80-90% of the people here would like to see me sail away safely which is about the same as posting on this thread. There are it seems a few officials who would rather see me lose the boat (and pay to fly away at no cost to them), but in the end they are outnumbered.

I lose a perfect weather window to go and my freedom to do what I like here, but at least my boat will be better, at no cost, and I can visit nz again whenever I like.

Fix your rudder and install a tri-color light? For free? Oh, and here's some free bottom paint as well? Really, for those suggesting that the NZ maritime authorities and their safety rules should be opposed on the basis that it impinges on personal freedom really should be ashamed of themselves.

Bon Voyage Alexandra. You are a lucky fellow.

[Delfin]

Originally Posted by boat_alexandra

Correct.

I want to make it very clear I _never_ said my boat was unseaworthy, this is their claim. I was waiting out cyclone season, stupidly missed the first really good weather window, and then got stuck with bad weather the next 3 weeks waiting until now.. and I now miss this window too because they stuck my boat on the hard. I asked if I could please sail away right then (yesterday) as I was ready to go when threatened to be arrested and deported if I didn't bring the boat into the yard, and this request was denied.

Denied so they would have time to make your boat safer at their expense to reduce the chance they might have to spend money and risk lives rescuing you if you have trouble.

Sometimes it is most prudent to just saddle up the gift horse and ride away, rather than complain about its color.

Again, best of luck and smooth sailing.

[noelex 77]

NZ
The New Zealand people are great. I don't think I have met a more helpful nationality. They are bloody good sailors as well.

I just hope the legislation that applies to visiting yachts can reflect the general laid back nature of the people.

[scoobert]

Originally Posted by Bluewaters2812

Those pics certainly show a disgusting pig-sty of a boat and the rigging also looks like it won't stand up to severe weather. If NZ authorities want to do this right all they have to do is get the right official acting on the authority of a specific law that empowers them to detain the boat. I sense they have not made provision in law for pleasure craft such as this. Maybe time to do so but until such time as they do they don't have a legal foot to stand on.

i am new to sailing. do small boats have rope rigging?

and your sailing this in the same sea that just claimed an 80' yacht?
some people are masochistic.

[scoobert]

Originally Posted by Delfin

Fix your rudder and install a tri-color light? For free? Oh, and here's some free bottom paint as well? Really, for those suggesting that the NZ maritime authorities and their safety rules should be opposed on the basis that it impinges on personal freedom really should be ashamed of themselves.

Bon Voyage Alexandra. You are a lucky fellow.

dangit, i want a free haul out, bottom paint, and loaner tools!!!

[David_Old_Jersey]

Looking forward to hearing about the arrival in Oz.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by boat_alexandra

I am going to try my best to stop posting political views and instead just report facts as I experience so that others may benefit and understand the situation in new zealand especially bay of islands. The main thing to be noted, is if you break any law, (including overstaying visa for a few months even if you are denied an extension for storm season as I was) then all the other rules become defenestrated and they can do whatever they want with you and/or your boat.

The official surveyor (the other guy I spoke of before was unofficial I didn't know at the time) turned out to have circumnavigated on an engine free 30ft wooden boat.

He said I have to drop my rudder, and check it for any problems, and fix them, then install an adequate tricolor on top of the mast then I'm free to go. All services tools materials and costs are free. This includes even wiring for the light as well as the light itself. Also included I have been given 4 liters of bottom paint to complete 2 coats.

As far as I can see it, 80-90% of the people here would like to see me sail away safely which is about the same as posting on this thread. There are it seems a few officials who would rather see me lose the boat (and pay to fly away at no cost to them), but in the end they are outnumbered.

I lose a perfect weather window to go and my freedom to do what I like here, but at least my boat will be better, at no cost, and I can visit nz again whenever I like.

Curiouser and curiouser!

I'm finding it hard to understand an inspector saying that to be seaworthy one must have a tri-color and new bottom paint. That is weird...

A sound and functional rudder is a reasonable requirement, but how in the world does an Immigration officer get involved with naval architecture decisions?

And why the Kiwi's have chosen to fund these repairs/improvements is hard to understand.

As I said, curious indeed!

Cheers,

Jim

[Delfin]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

Looking forward to hearing about the arrival in Oz.

It is the friggin' Tasman in the middle of the friggin' winter, but he'll probably make it just fine and I genuinely hope that is the case.

The Aussie's will accept him because they are a civilized nation.

Well, pretty civilized.....

[Sailmonkey]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

And why the Kiwi's have chosen to fund these repairs/improvements is hard to understand.

As I said, curious indeed!

Cheers

Jim

I would suspect it's the cheapest way to deport him.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by Sailmonkey

I would suspect it's the cheapest way to deport him.

and because they are nice . (not every law enforcement solution requires jackboots and an orange jumpsuit).