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Old 04-07-2013, 11:54   #481
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Re: New Zealand Immigration Officer Making Wild Claims

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Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
There's almost an Orwellian Humor in the whole situation. Can't leave, can't stay, must be arrested, no, deported, or you can fix the boat and then leave with it, or leave now if it doesn't need fixing...Oh, right, it might not, someone will have to decide that...although you can't leave with it because it isn't...

Sounds like one of those cheap horror movies with some vacationers taking a turn down the wrong road in the deep south woods in the US.

I'd love to get the full unabridged version once it is over.
It is a sad situation, no doubt. Seems to me the Kiwis have tolerated a fair amount from this poor chap, but are opting for the only reasonable solution. Deport him because he has overstayed his welcome and has no safe way of departing as he came. If he can't afford to have his vessel tended pr brought to a standard that allows him to leave without risking rescuers, then he loses his boat. I can't see how anyone can complain. Those who think it an outrage that the OP can be prevented from leaving on the basis that he's the only one to suffer if he sinks (not true, of course, but lets pretend) should be more than willing to see him suffer the consequences for violating the laws of a country he freely chose to visit. Perhaps this is just a kind of bureaucratic Darwinism, where the weak mariners are culled from the herd at minimal cost.
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Old 04-07-2013, 12:23   #482
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Re: New Zealand Immigration Officer Making Wild Claims

Quote:

(...) vessel tended pr brought to a standard that allows him to leave without risking rescuers (...)
Exactly.

Can someone PLS share a link to this standard?

Right? Wrong? Ambiguous?

I think it is like everybody keeps on repeating: 'NZ is such a wonderful place to spend your So Pac hurricane season in'. Sure.

Well, it is NOT. It is a cold and rainy country. Dangerous to sail to and sail out of. Now it turns out that with less than efficient way of letting naive sailors know what the entry and exit conditions are.

If the guy overstayed then why didn't he get deported by now? Well, maybe because his credit card was still valid ...

If you are a low budget sailor in a small, older boat: AVOID.

In English, there is the expression 'to call a spade a spade'. A cold and rainy country separated from the world by a cold and dangerous patch of ocean.

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Old 04-07-2013, 12:38   #483
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Re: New Zealand Immigration Officer Making Wild Claims

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Originally Posted by deepblueln View Post
I am wondering what the alternative is --- if they put him on the next plane to anywhere, aren't they then stuck with a supposedly decrepit boat (which now has no one around to care for it at all) stuck in their marina, or growing mold in a storage yard? What happens when it sinks/catches fire/breaks lines and drifts into something important?
My guess is that it will be impounded ashore somewhere reasonably secure, and will rack up storage charges.....and when OP does not pay the boat will be sold to meet those costs (or at least part of them), how the US reg is dealt with is a separate matter (likely ignore it! and reg in NZ, with good title obtained via paperwork from the Court Process.....not 100% sure about boat reg in NZ, but I suspect based on UK where the boat reg is not the proof of title) - could even be that the boat is parted out or simply bulldozed to stop the storage costs.
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Old 04-07-2013, 12:49   #484
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Re: New Zealand Immigration Officer Making Wild Claims

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It is a cold and rainy country. Dangerous to sail to and sail out of. Now it turns out that with less than efficient way of letting naive sailors know what the entry and exit conditions are.
Have you ever been to NZ? and if so, did they piss in your Cheerios?

Unless someone is wilfully illiterate then before arriving they will discover that the NZ climate is Temperate and not Tropical, and overall pretty pleasant . Same for the locals . Literacy will also help in discovering before arriving that a) NZ has laws, including for Visas and b) they apply to "you" (no matter where you come from). Whether dangerous to sail to and from is down to the Sailor, but for sure not a place to be taken lightly.

NZ is also female friendly , unlike some other countries (no names ) da gubberment does not regulate what women do with their vaginas, in the name of cheeses or not...........
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Old 04-07-2013, 12:59   #485
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Re: New Zealand Immigration Officer Making Wild Claims

Hoo boy, those Nuzullunders.
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Old 04-07-2013, 13:31   #486
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Re: New Zealand Immigration Officer Making Wild Claims

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
Sorry a guy sails in on a POS boat , overstays his visa by a long shot, admits to other illegal acts. as in many many states he is prevented from leaving in a POS boat, until he fixes it, then he is treated quite compassionately by immigration giving him several options .

If this was the US all his attire would be orange by now.


I see it as a very humane and considerate response by a state to a person that has clearly freeloaded

The attacks on NZ are entirely , utterly unjustified. Not to mention the US " gun boat" style solutions , as if Americans are somehow except from other people's rules.

I'd impound the boat to pay for his airline ticket , put Him in cuffs and take him hot foot to the nearest international airport.

Dave
I would prefer not to address the individual problems of the OP. Personally I think far too many negative comments have been made.

Discussion of alleged rule violations and criminal activity against a member of CF is inappropriate. That members are prepared to make these allegations in a public forum, that can be read by authorities is disappointing.

However, I think the the topic is important and the general principals can, and should be addressed.

Many well equipped cruising boats would dismally fail the local registration requirements required for many countries. There is a push for overseas boats to conform to these requirements. Locals argue if they have to conform, why not overseas boats?
We have seen some similar sentiments expressed in this thread.

Many ignore the realities of these restrictions.

"CE compliance plate, of course I don't need that my boat was constructed to the highest standards it meets all the American requirements."

Fortunately most countries have adopted the principal that if boat conforms to the safety requirements of the country of registration it is acceptable. New Zealand has been one of the countries at the forefront of pushing overseas boats to conform with local requirements. Some of these laws have been successfully overturned.

I believe some members of the cruising community are being very short sighted in not opposing some of the general principals that have been outlined in this thread.
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Old 04-07-2013, 13:36   #487
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Re: New Zealand Immigration Officer Making Wild Claims

If NZ and AU are as bad as the USA, then I will not be visiting, the point of leaving the USA is to get away from this kind of crap, not go to somewhere the same or worse.

The speculation that the OP has used his boat condition to stay would be 100% opposite from what he has said. Surely some of you in NZ can call the officials
and get their side of the story.
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Old 04-07-2013, 13:45   #488
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noelex 77 View Post
I would prefer not to address the individual problems of the OP. Personally I think far too many negative comments have been made.

Discussion of alleged rule violations and criminal activity against a member of CF is inappropriate. That members are prepared to make these allegations in a public forum, that can be read by authorities is disappointing.

However, I think the the topic is important and the general principals can, and should be addressed.

Many well equipped cruising boats would dismally fail the local registration requirements required for many countries. There is a push for overseas boats to conform to these requirements. Locals argue if they have to conform, why not overseas boats?
We have seen some similar sentiments expressed in this thread.

Many ignore the realities of these restrictions.

"CE compliance plate, of course I don't need that my boat was constructed to the highest standards it meets all the American requirements."

Fortunately most countries have adopted the principal that if boat conforms to the safety requirements of the country of registration it is acceptable. New Zealand has been one of the countries at the forefront of pushing overseas boats to conform with local requirements. Some of these laws have been successfully overturned.

I believe some members of the cruising community are being very short sighted in not opposing some of the general principals that have been outlined in this thread.
Are you saying we should unconditionally support a CF member even if they are shown to have broken the laws of a sovereign nation? Just trying to get a handle on the moral standards of this site.
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Old 04-07-2013, 13:47   #489
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Originally Posted by nimblemotors View Post
If NZ and AU are as bad as the USA, then I will not be visiting, the point of leaving the USA is to get away from this kind of crap, not go to somewhere the same or worse.

The speculation that the OP has used his boat condition to stay would be 100% opposite from what he has said. Surely some of you in NZ can call the officials
and get their side of the story.
NZ is more than twenty miles off the coast you know.
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Old 04-07-2013, 13:54   #490
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Re: New Zealand Immigration Officer Making Wild Claims

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Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
If the guy overstayed then why didn't he get deported by now? Well, maybe because his credit card was still valid ...
Very probably they only just caught him. This whole saga is clearly part of the deportation process going by the form he uploaded.

New Zealand being a free country does not after all fit visitors with radio collars and follow them around to check they're following their visa rules
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Old 04-07-2013, 13:56   #491
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Re: New Zealand Immigration Officer Making Wild Claims

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Originally Posted by Delfin View Post
Just to clarify, do you believe it is a bad law for NZ to insist a private vessel departing its shores meet minimum safety standards so they don't have to spend taxpayer money and risk first responders lives rescuing them?
I presume you means new Zealand's safety standards. If we answer yes then all countries we visit have a similar right.
No vessel will conform to all these standards. Even the licensing and testing standards are different.
Do your electrics installations conform to the standards of all the countries you might visit. Can you prove it?
Even the inflatable life jackets I purchased recently, I believe, have not received approval worldwide. No they were not cheap

Even fair and just application of these laws is rife with difficulties, throw in a bit of corruption which is endemic in many parts of world and these laws are a nightmare for cruising sailors.

Do you really want this?
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Old 04-07-2013, 14:07   #492
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Re: New Zealand Immigration Officer Making Wild Claims

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Originally Posted by noelex 77 View Post
I presume you means new Zealand's safety standards. If we answer yes then all countries we visit have a similar right.
No vessel will conform to all these standards. Even the licensing and testing standards are different.

Do you really want this?
Question (very relevant to this case):
If you're permanently importing a boat, it seems reasonable it should have to meet the local safety standards - otherwise the country loses all rights to enforce any sort of safety standard.

If you're "just visiting", how long before the local authorities should decide that you're taking the mickey and force you to comply with the local rules - 3 months (visa waiver duration), 18 months (OP's apparent stay), 5 years, forever, what?
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Old 04-07-2013, 14:14   #493
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Re: New Zealand Immigration Officer Making Wild Claims

G'Day all,

After struggling through the rhetoric in this thread I am left with the strong impression that:

The OP definitely did not comply with the terms of his visa as issued.

From reading the document that he posted (rather foolishly, I think) it appears that he, when confronted by Immigration about the overstaying, claimed that he couldn't leave because his boat was not seaworthy. This is a rather common ploy used by unscrupulous yotties to extend visa stays, and is a practice that reflects poorly upon all the rest of us.

At some point, the NZ officials said, OK, we will get a professional evaluation of the condition of your yacht. If it is ok, then you have a week to get gone, If it is not ok, then you have a period of time to make it good, and then you have a week to get gone.

If the yacht can not be so repaired, or if you can not pay for the repairs to be done by others, then you must leave by some other means.

In my opinion the Kiwis have acted properly here, and with considerable forbearance. The OP, I suspect, was using the internet to muddy the waters, hoping that some sort of influence would be exerted on the Kiwis to delay or remove the threat of deportation.

And for those who so vehemently declare their intention to never visit this unlovely, cold and dictatorial country... well, ok, don't go there. Why do you think that we care?

Cheers,

Jim (who spent three lovely summers cruising this fascinating country)
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Old 04-07-2013, 14:16   #494
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Re: New Zealand Immigration Officer Making Wild Claims

Quote:
Originally Posted by noelex 77;1277239[COLOR="black"
]I would prefer not to address the individual problems of the OP. Personally I think far too many negative comments have been made.

Discussion of alleged rule violations and criminal activity against a member of CF is inappropriate. That members are prepared to make these allegations in a public forum, that can be read by authorities is disappointing.[/COLOR]

However, I think the the topic is important and the general principals can, and should be addressed.

Many well equipped cruising boats would dismally fail the local registration requirements required for many countries. There is a push for overseas boats to conform to these requirements. Locals argue if they have to conform, why not overseas boats?
We have seen some similar sentiments expressed in this thread.

Many ignore the realities of these restrictions.

"CE compliance plate, of course I don't need that my boat was constructed to the highest standards it meets all the American requirements."

Fortunately most countries have adopted the principal that if boat conforms to the safety requirements of the country of registration it is acceptable. New Zealand has been one of the countries at the forefront of pushing overseas boats to conform with local requirements. Some of these laws have been successfully overturned.

I believe some members of the cruising community are being very short sighted in not opposing some of the general principals that have been outlined in this thread.
Noelex,

Your first two paragraphs seem to me to ignore that the OP has hidden his real situation for quite a while, made a plea for help that has been shown to be in spite of the fact that he has not complied with NZ Immigration regulations. Frankly, I think a number of posters feel quite "ripped off" by the OP's taking perceived advantage of them. It is this feeling level, that has led to the angry feelings expressed here towards the OP. If ignored, people will get over it in a day or two, as more people realize it is a waste of time to sympathize with an energy sink; and this will leave the underlying issues to be dealt with.

Unfortunately, we, who are Americans, have encountered many of our countrymen -- as well as other westerners from other nations -- who do behave as if local rules and customs are to be ignored in favor of their own. This is an appropriate issue for a cruising forum, IMO, but not the non-American regulations. How we treat other countries should be to inform ourselves concerning their regulations (and customs), and behave legally and in a friendly manner within them.


Ann
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Old 04-07-2013, 14:21   #495
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Re: New Zealand Immigration Officer Making Wild Claims

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
G'Day all,

After struggling through the rhetoric in this thread I am left with the strong impression that:

The OP definitely did not comply with the terms of his visa as issued.

From reading the document that he posted (rather foolishly, I think) it appears that he, when confronted by Immigration about the overstaying, claimed that he couldn't leave because his boat was not seaworthy. This is a rather common ploy used by unscrupulous yotties to extend visa stays, and is a practice that reflects poorly upon all the rest of us.

At some point, the NZ officials said, OK, we will get a professional evaluation of the condition of your yacht. If it is ok, then you have a week to get gone, If it is not ok, then you have a period of time to make it good, and then you have a week to get gone.

If the yacht can not be so repaired, or if you can not pay for the repairs to be done by others, then you must leave by some other means.

In my opinion the Kiwis have acted properly here, and with considerable forbearance. The OP, I suspect, was using the internet to muddy the waters, hoping that some sort of influence would be exerted on the Kiwis to delay or remove the threat of deportation.

And for those who so vehemently declare their intention to never visit this unlovely, cold and dictatorial country... well, ok, don't go there. Why do you think that we care?

Cheers,

Jim (who spent three lovely summers cruising this fascinating country)
nicely put jim! my sentiments entirely

edit! this is one of the reasons french polynesia started imposing a bond on visiting yachtsmen,as they got tired of having to repatriate down and out sailors that got stuck there in unseaworth boats from europe and the west coast
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