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Old 22-06-2013, 01:02   #166
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Re: New Zealand Immigration Officer Making Wild Claims

Risk management has a funny way of turning into bureaucratic B.S. though, sadly.
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Old 22-06-2013, 01:33   #167
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Re: New Zealand Immigration Officer Making Wild Claims

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Risk management has a funny way of turning into bureaucratic B.S. though, sadly.
True, but the better we are at it, the better we can mitigate bureaucracy as a whole. When folks are being haphazard about things, or doing what they know they shouldn't be doing, that is when the masses suffer because of the few. There is no easy solution here. But, IMO, laws, ordinances, and regulations, should be derived from the masses, not the few.

Personally, I don't think I need to be protected from myself (nanny state mentioned), but it is likely there are some that do need a bit of help.
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Old 22-06-2013, 01:58   #168
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Re: New Zealand Immigration Officer Making Wild Claims

Darwin had the right idea.
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Old 22-06-2013, 03:40   #169
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Re: New Zealand Immigration Officer Making Wild Claims

Meanwhile
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Old 22-06-2013, 08:50   #170
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Re: New Zealand Immigration Officer Making Wild Claims

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Well, you've kind of altered what I wrote, quite a bit. I was making the point that a professional seafarer in the vicinity of an incident is duty bound to render assistance. Under international conventions he has no choice in the matter.
Well, for the way you originally put things, it was very unclear what you meant.

Thank you for explaining.

We too know SOLAS and ten commandments here.

b.
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Old 22-06-2013, 09:35   #171
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Re: New Zealand Immigration Officer Making Wild Claims

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We too know SOLAS and ten commandments here.

b.
I dunno which "we" you are referring to.

Or which 10 commandments........


But unless that is the Royal use of "we" I suspect that might not be entirely correct .
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Old 22-06-2013, 13:56   #172
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Re: New Zealand Immigration Officer Making Wild Claims

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I dunno which "we" you are referring to.

Or which 10 commandments........


But unless that is the Royal use of "we" I suspect that might not be entirely correct .
OK, you got me.

I talk of someone's not being clear and meanwhile I introduce more unclear language myself. That's not the way to discuss, I agree.

So below is what I wanted to express (in plain if possibly bad, English):

The fact that SOLAS requires some ships' masters to render assistance does not bear on the fact that all masters have the moral duty to render such help. Imagine seeing someone in need of help when you walk down the street: do you walk on, because you are neither a nurse nor a doctor and hence you do not feel legally bound to render assistance?

By 10 commandments I meant the ten commandments: Ten Commandments - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia which are the historical ground for vast areas of today's morals and, to lesser extent, ethics as taught and practiced in the Western world.

I do not see how non-professional sailors ask for assistance any more often than professional seafarers do, neither do I see non-professional sailors sailing on when such an assistance is required 'for they are not bound by legal duty'. That's to what I meant to objected in my way less than well spelled out post.

Regards to all seafarers: professional, royal, Western, or NOT.
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Old 22-06-2013, 14:24   #173
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pirate Re: New Zealand Immigration Officer Making Wild Claims

Sailing from the American continent to NZ/OZ is called the 'Milk Run' for a reason.. you don't have to be a Captain Bligh... wind and currents all go that way... however getting out is another matter.. especially in winter... and the decision to sail that boat out in winter just goes to show how little he learnt/experienced in getting there.
But then.. what do I know... plus.. I've no balls for risky ventures
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Old 22-06-2013, 14:50   #174
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Re: New Zealand Immigration Officer Making Wild Claims

I was under the impression that there was a legal (as well as moral) obligation for recreational (as well as professional ) skippers to render assistance in a mayday situation, unless it was impractical to do so.

There are exceptions such as following the instructions of a rescue authority like the coast guard.
As always it is the skippers decision to assess the risk to his own crew, but if you don't offer suitable assistance you need to be able justify your actions.

Especially if its me in trouble
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Old 22-06-2013, 14:58   #175
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Re: New Zealand Immigration Officer Making Wild Claims

Hi everyone,

FWIW (which may not be much), I think either the OP was just trolling, or actually took umbrage at what a friendly Kiwi said to him. There is no indication that the immigration officer made anything other than appropriate observations that anyone with an ounce of experience and/or familiarity with the Tasman in winter would have done. If anything, the incident speaks for the lovely land of the long white cloud, not otherwise. My experiences of the Customs and Immigration officers there has always been of friendly efficiency, and I think maybe an extremely low budget cruiser may have a too-big chip on his shoulder, so to speak.

My two cents.

Ann
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Old 22-06-2013, 16:07   #176
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Re: New Zealand Immigration Officer Making Wild Claims

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By 10 commandments I meant the ten commandments: Ten Commandments - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia which are the historical ground for vast areas of today's morals and, to lesser extent, ethics as taught and practiced in the Western world.
Would that be the Jewish, the Catholic, the Protestant or even the Mormon 10 commandments? Of course ya could check the bible to see which 10 are in fact "correct". Oooops, I forgot..............

Different Versions of the Ten Commandments

I am surprised nothing about goats in any of them...........
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Old 22-06-2013, 16:38   #177
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Originally Posted by noelex 77 View Post
I was under the impression that there was a legal (as well as moral) obligation for recreational (as well as professional ) skippers to render assistance in a mayday situation, unless it was impractical to do so.

There are exceptions such as following the instructions of a rescue authority like the coast guard.
As always it is the skippers decision to assess the risk to his own crew, but if you don't offer suitable assistance you need to be able justify your actions.

Especially if its me in trouble
No, the only " legal" obligation arises from the SOLAS agreement , which is part of UNCLOS. This only applies to ships and specifically excludes leisure vessels and fishing vessels and ships under 300 tons.

Dave
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Old 22-06-2013, 16:40   #178
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Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post

Would that be the Jewish, the Catholic, the Protestant or even the Mormon 10 commandments? Of course ya could check the bible to see which 10 are in fact "correct". Oooops, I forgot..............

Different Versions of the Ten Commandments

I am surprised nothing about goats in any of them...........
What did the pagans and Druids have , I'm mean there was a lot of time below some block stumbled on some stone tablets or what not.

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Old 22-06-2013, 17:28   #179
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Re: New Zealand Immigration Officer Making Wild Claims

Barnakiel, I have revisited what I wrote and appreciate its ambiguity.

Sorry.
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Old 22-06-2013, 18:06   #180
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Re: New Zealand Immigration Officer Making Wild Claims

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Hi everyone,

FWIW (which may not be much), I think either the OP was just trolling, or actually took umbrage at what a friendly Kiwi said to him. There is no indication that the immigration officer made anything other than appropriate observations that anyone with an ounce of experience and/or familiarity with the Tasman in winter would have done. If anything, the incident speaks for the lovely land of the long white cloud, not otherwise. My experiences of the Customs and Immigration officers there has always been of friendly efficiency, and I think maybe an extremely low budget cruiser may have a too-big chip on his shoulder, so to speak.

My two cents.

Ann
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