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Old 21-06-2013, 13:15   #136
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Re: New Zealand Immigration Officer Making Wild Claims

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post

No doubt the OP has already cleared out an gone .
Was posting on CF (another thread) yesterday.........

and for those who did not click on the link earlier in the thread this is what the NZ official may have been looking at:


For a fibreglass boat that seems like a lot of rust staining.....a good clean would do no harm........



Some quality repair work there



Of course those may have been taken a while back (or may not actually be the same boat!) - but if still current then you can understand why officialdom may have concerns.............whether you agree with da Gubberment having a view on these things or not is a different matter, but I think pretty common knowledge that the NZ official mindset on these things is a tad different to other places - you go to NZ and deal with reality as it is, or you don't - seemples ........and to achieve that not standing out like a sore thumb on a boat that at least looks like it is a POS would be useful , no matter that it swings with yer independent image of self......if folks want to avoid (or at least slow down) the creep of officialdom into travelling long distances on small boats then each person gets a bit of responsibility (and also the opportunity!) to not scare the beejesus out of officialdom into "something must be done" mode.

The fact that the boat (and Skipper) crossed the Pacific is great (and to be admired, especially on 27 foot ) but today does not mean anything......putting that sort of mileage on a boat does not improve it's condition, in fact quite the reverse. Nor does sitting on the hook for a year or so automatically do so either........especially not on a (claimed) boat budget of $100 a year (including post pacific refurb costs?).
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Old 21-06-2013, 13:30   #137
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Re: New Zealand Immigration Officer Making Wild Claims

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Originally Posted by noelex 77 View Post
These are New Zealand requirements. (Warning this is 148 pages)
http://www.yachtingnz.org.nz/sites/y...16%20FINAL.pdf

I wonder how many foreign flagged vessels conform to all these Cat 1 requirements?
Even if your boat does comply, are you really advocating that CF should be supporting inspection and proof of compliance?
Yachts that have sailed safely from foreign countries.

What do you suggest for those yachts that cannot prove fundamental requirements such as, for example, proof of stability?

I am surprised any CF members are giving even tacit support for such measures.

Cruising in the worlds oceans is one of the last great freedoms, lets work to keep so, rather than advocating a path of additional government control.
Those are NOT the New Zealand rules as pertaining to foreign registered yachts (unless they are racing). Mis-information is more dangerous than no information. The correct rules and links have been mentioned here already.
How any CF member can countenance allowing someone to put to sea in a death trap astounds me. For those that have obviously never been to NZ (the nanny state) the officials that have allegedly detained the vessel will be trained surveyors, not who the OP is claiming they are.
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Old 21-06-2013, 13:58   #138
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pirate Re: New Zealand Immigration Officer Making Wild Claims

I'm just glad I'm a Brit... the only 'Free Boating Nation' for the small boat owner..
Oh... and Portugal requires a lot more than 6+4+2 flares/smokes for local craft... and that's just those with a 3 miles from Port licence..
You should see the inspection for 12 miles and then Coastal...
annually...
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Old 21-06-2013, 14:08   #139
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Re: New Zealand Immigration Officer Making Wild Claims

We lived in NZ and we sailed in and out in a small sailboat that could be easily labelled 'unseaworthy' by any unfriendly NZ officer. The point is, the officers there are friendly and they communicate what is required in a clear manner. It is like in AUS where there may be some requirements but you know them before you sail in - all it takes is read their websites carefully and if anything is not clear send them an email and listen to what they say. If you do not like what they say, simply do not sail in.

The requirements as posted above DID NOT apply to foreign flagged pleasure craft at the time of our entry (2004) nor at the time of our departure (2006).

Off course, just like in many other countries, a harbour master (or any other relevant authority) have full control over their harbour area and may stop any boat sailing their waters as well as stop any boat, local or foreign, from departure, should they decide there is a base for such an action.

It is nothing NZ specific, we have seen boats 'locked in' by port authorities elsewhere.

Mind you waters around NZ get extremely rough at times and there has been VERY MANY cases of boats lost on their way out from NZ 'to the islands'. No wonder NZ authorities are watching very carefully at condition of the boats that are going to depart for this journey.

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Old 21-06-2013, 14:10   #140
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Re: New Zealand Immigration Officer Making Wild Claims

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Originally Posted by NoTies View Post
Those are NOT the New Zealand rules as pertaining to foreign registered yachts (unless they are racing)..
No these are New Zealand regulations required for New Zealand yachts.

See here:
Taking your yacht overseas - Maritime NZ

New Zealeand tried to impose these requirements on foreign yachts sailing out of New Zealand waters. There was an outcry from crusing yachts around the world and the requirements for foreign vessels were dropped.
There is a surprising sentiment on this thread that these laws should be applied to all yachts from other countries.

The next country visited will of course impose its own, different, requirements.
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Old 21-06-2013, 14:11   #141
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Re: New Zealand Immigration Officer Making Wild Claims

For those that accuse NZ of being a nanny state (bearing in mind your own countries), NZ requires no compulsory registration of recreational vessels unless sailing to a foreign port and requires no compulsory licensing. There are no black booted thugs clambering aboard your pride and joy to demand papers etc.
Responsible cruisers should be supporting the decision to detain this POS as if we don't make a stand on certain standards then it can only lead to further restrictions on our freedoms as the uneducated public lobby the bureaucrats to stop these idiots wasting our resources and endangering the lives of our rescue services.
To advocate a rescue waiver is nonsense. Human decency and the international law of the sea will preclude any decent person ignoring a mariner in peril.
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Old 21-06-2013, 14:13   #142
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Re: New Zealand Immigration Officer Making Wild Claims

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Originally Posted by noelex 77 View Post
No these are New Zealand regulations required for New Zealand yachts.

See here:
Taking your yacht overseas - Maritime NZ

New Zealeand tried to impose these requirements on foreign yachts sailing out of New Zealand waters. There was an outcry from crusing yachts around the world and the requirements for foreign vessels were dropped.
There is a surprising sentiment on this thread that these laws should be applied by New Zealand and other countries.

The next country visited will of course impose its own, different, requirements.
I'm well versed in the rules, being a semi retired surveyor from NZ. You represented the rules as pertaining to all recreational vessels.
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Old 21-06-2013, 14:20   #143
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Re: New Zealand Immigration Officer Making Wild Claims

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I'm just glad I'm a Brit... the only 'Free Boating Nation' for the small boat owner..
. The UK has got it right.

Despite almost no safety requirements for pleasure craft the accident rate does not seem any different than countries with much tougher restrictions.

This is despite the difficult sailing conditions and cold water.

(Not as tough as NZ however, 40k is a nice sailing breeze in the south island )
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Old 21-06-2013, 14:35   #144
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pirate Re: New Zealand Immigration Officer Making Wild Claims

Quote:
Originally Posted by noelex 77 View Post
. The UK has got right.

Despite almost no safety requirements for pleasure craft the accident rate does not seem any different than countries with much tougher restrictions.

This is despite the difficult sailing conditions and cold water.

(Not as tough as NZ however, 40k is a nice sailing breeze in the south island )
Not so bad across the Bight either...
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Old 21-06-2013, 14:59   #145
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Re: New Zealand Immigration Officer Making Wild Claims

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Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
The fact that the boat (and Skipper) crossed the Pacific is great
I'm coming around to having some sympathy for the man... the more I read about the electric propulsion, the sculling, the onboard garden... is actually rather cool.
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Old 21-06-2013, 15:09   #146
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Re: New Zealand Immigration Officer Making Wild Claims

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Originally Posted by banaari View Post
I'm coming around to having some sympathy for the man... the more I read about the electric propulsion, the sculling, the onboard garden... is actually rather cool.
For sure I would love to have a looksee at his boat in person (esp. the EP), and to crack a few beers ..........just unlikely (from the pics) that I would cross the bay let alone the ocean with him / the boat (of course the choices and risks one takes can be as wise or as mental as one chooses when solo - and IMO that is a good thing ).
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Old 21-06-2013, 15:43   #147
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Re: New Zealand Immigration Officer Making Wild Claims

So far I have kept my yardarm clear of this debate - being a kiwi and therefore biased?
Before retirement I spent a good proportion of my 68 years at sea and have sailed in and out of NZ many times, either as skipper of my little yacht or as master of 18 - 22,000DWT multi purpose general cargo ships.
In the course of my seafaring life I have attended the odd small vessel in distress, and my understanding of these events is that very occasionally they are the result of genuine misfortune but far more likely the result of bad decision making, a poorly maintained or unsuitable vessel or the lack of experience or equipment. For the ship owner involved in a rescue of say 10 - 12 hours, this will cost hundreds of thousands of dollars and take weeks to recover from - I can quantify this if you like.
The bottom line is, the small boat sailor has the freedom of choice. When he's out there, squealing into his radio for help because its all turned to custard, other professional seafarers in the vicinity do not.
I support every person's right to come and go as he pleases in the vessel of his choice, but with that right comes the responsibility to be mindful of the wellbeing of others who may be impacted by your actions
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Old 21-06-2013, 15:44   #148
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Re: New Zealand Immigration Officer Making Wild Claims

We've had kayaks successfully paddled across the Tasman while international trading vessels over 10,000 tons have sunk in our coastal waters. Alexandra doesn't have have a combustion engine and is probably unsinkable so is safer than most despite its very low initial cost and lack of fancy stuff that some sailors(including me) are so keen on.
The safety of this proposed voyage is all about the skipper, not the condition of the boat.
The skipper has crossed the Pacific solo and potted about in NZ waters for 18 months so has had significant experience.
No official would recommend BA's cruising outfit but then again no ER nurse would recommend playing rugby, mountain-biking, stock-car racing or mountaineering. I think cruisers who fight officials who get carried away with PC and self-importance are doing other cruisers a favour.
If the official has concerns,(he may be paranoid about safety) then they should be put the skipper in writing to assist the skipper in making his own responsible decisions.
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Old 21-06-2013, 16:18   #149
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Re: New Zealand Immigration Officer Making Wild Claims

I think somebody is trying to save a life here not to start a debate on NZ as a country. If the photos of this mans boat are true I ask you!!! would you go out in it in the weather down there at this time of the year ( come on guys lets hear the truth ) we haven't heard back from the OP so is there another side to this. I see so many posts on here about seaworthy boats and the work that lots of people do to achieve this befor they leave even on a coastal trip! this guy was heading out into 70/80knts in an old boat that by the sound and look of it is held together with a wish and a prayer. So lets hear from the OP again this time the full facts instead of getting on the case of the guy that might be trying to save him !!!!!! Cheers Jacko
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Old 21-06-2013, 16:20   #150
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Re: New Zealand Immigration Officer Making Wild Claims

Yeah the photos of that boat look really really rough. I wonder if it still looks the same or.... (gulp) maybe worse.
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