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Old 13-02-2007, 23:25   #31
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Hi Folks, I'm a newbie with a tahitian 46 ketch and was researching the offshore regs for a trip to Brisbane late last year. Trip did not eventuate for biz reasons but the regs are daunting. 'THEY' certainly don't encourage such foolhardy ventures as leaving dry land or even having a sense of adventure...!
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Old 15-02-2007, 09:06   #32
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Sorry can't agree with that.

Essentially they are a good comprehensive guide to being well- equipped for a long offshore passage.

Having double screwclips and bungs for through-hulls is good practise. If you have a failure 500 miles from land it is no use saying oh I wish someone told me that.

One fairly obvious reason for having these requirements is that more or less any place you go is about a 1000 miles across what are recognised as potentially amongst the world's more difficult sailing areas. Many Americans sail the Pacific but hesitate before coming down to NZ whereas for us it is normal just to go up to the islands.

There are a couple of reasons why some basic offshore experience is required rather than simply extensive coastal. The distances mean that it is hard even with a weather window to avoid being caught by a weather system and the seas build up with a greater fetch, with no place to shelter.

Two seasickness is very common disabling some crew.

Three I understand that being offshore freaks some people out. You don't know how people will react. One guy I spoke to had done something like 20-30 trans Tasman crossings and said that they got bashed everytime. He also had stepped up into a liferaft a day or two out.

On my training course twenty years ago the recommendation was to take someone experienced on your first trip, just the reassurance "Oh this this is nothing." It is now a requirement I gather.

When you are 500 miles from land with no one around, you want faith in your boat and yourself.

Some don't want SSB however apart from being a means to communicate, it is also a means of hearing someone else's distress call. Boats are so infrequent that it is highly unlikely that VHF or flares would work. Sure there is EPIRB but you might be just two hours away.

As for the drugs and the first aid course, well you hope you don't have to use them, but if someone has a broken leg, kidneystone, or whatever then they may be glad you had it instead of waiting say 4 days for assistance. It happens, not commonly but enough particularly as most cruisers are getting older. So it is self-sufficiency and prudence.

"They" are mostly experienced offshore sailors and well worth listening to. Any clear system might seem bureaucratic or have the odd point that doesn't seem to fit a particular case, however as a whole it needs to be clear and is well -based in the circumstances.

As just one example, a guy I know broke his new professionally made rudder halfway across the Tasman on the first leg of a circumnavigation. His choices were know how to cope, await rescue and abandon his boat, or call the maker and ask for after-sales service. Pick one.
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Old 15-02-2007, 16:31   #33
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A comprehensive guide they may be but why do they have to legislate it? I would be more in favour of anyone wishing to clear customs and not meeting minimal safety requirements being required to have rescue insurance.
In NZ as in most countries we already have a system in place to assess minimal safety requirements that applies to all vessels regardles of registry. It is called "port & flag state inspection". Maritime NZ is duplicating this services under the auspices of Yachting NZ whose inspectors don't generally have the qualifications and experience to assess all aspects of the vessel & crew.
An inquiry by me to YNZ regarding qualifications was answered "We are very interested in skippers with extensive overseas sailing experience in yachts preferably their own as that ensures they get lots of "difficult" maintainence problems." Nothing about any commercial experience, engineering background, level of training, naval architecture experience. Basically some person that has sailed a wooden boat around the world can tell me I have to remove the keel from my solid glass boat for inspection.
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Old 15-02-2007, 17:26   #34
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"port & flag state inspection".

What is that Pete???
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Old 15-02-2007, 17:59   #35
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Maritime New Zealand - Port State Control
It says that it applies to foreign vessels but I have had P&FS inspections caried out on NZ registered boats.
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Old 15-02-2007, 19:59   #36
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But isn't that for Ships, as in big things. Cat 1 is for smaller vessels is it not??

As for Cat requirements, my beef is not in regards to safety equipment requirments. I think anyone not taking essentials like flares, liferaft, medical kit etc etc are plain stupid sailing in our waters. But I do have a beef with the requirements of stability and keel bolts and so on when I am far more qualified to inspect these area's than they are. Plus other stupid things like proving experiance in both sailing and navigation. IMO they should be out booking these damn fizz boats and jet ski's that break all the laws and buzz around the lovely quite bays to close to moored/anchored vessels and all the idiots that have no clue on which side they should pass and what marker colour should go where and so on, than worry about the finer details of seriouse sailors.
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Old 15-02-2007, 20:08   #37
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P&FS applies to any registered ship (vessel), local authorities have jurisdiction over non registered pleasure craft but operators can be prosecuted by Maritime NZ as well as local authorities depending on the particular infringement.
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Old 15-02-2007, 22:47   #38
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Seeing as you are clued up on this stuff, Here's a question Pete.
Am I breaking any laws by sailing from say port to port within NZ with not having an Cat classification such as say Cat 3. Seeing as it is required for coastal racing, does it also encompass "non-racing" vessels?
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Old 15-02-2007, 22:53   #39
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Absolutely not Alan, Cat 1 within NZ only applies to YNZ affiliated racing events and does not affect any other commercial or pleasure boat activities. Give us another term of this government and things might change though. Obviously we need more laws to guide us in how we run our lives.
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Old 15-02-2007, 22:55   #40
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So how's the bright ligts big city going? Obviouse you have good internet connection. Is the sailing going all right?
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Old 15-02-2007, 23:07   #41
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Had the first day out today with a couple of short trips. Apart from stepping on an American lady's foot whilst trying to grind in the heads'l in a squall with about 3 square inches of foot room it went well. Managed not to embarass myself. 20 tons of boat with 120hp and a left hand prop takes some getting used to but that's why God made spring lines and good crew.
Main thing to remember is that most pax are getting terrified just as I'm starting to enjoy myself. We refer to the customers as "organic autopilot". Not terribly reliable but saves us having to be on the wheel all the time as they all want to steer and have the hero pix taken.
Dorkland is crazy at the moment, 9 cruise ships in a week and the Queen Mary still to arrive. Rich bastards.
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Old 15-02-2007, 23:31   #42
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Yeah I heard that big thing was coming. It was only a few days ago it was going under the Golden gate bridge. She must really be able to steam to get here that quick.
Actually thinking on that, didn't she hold the record from Sydney to Auckland? Untill Ginger Gibbs broke it just recently. Sadly Ginger died just a few weeks back by the way.
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Old 15-02-2007, 23:36   #43
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Yep, Ginge is dead. The lifestyle he (and is brothers) lead was destined to make one's heart explode. Last of a dying breed. Did you know his old man was skipper on the Tiri (Hauraki pirate radio ship)? Apparently his old crew are going to start the attempt for round NZ record on Sunday or Monday morning. Good thing he didn't give up the ghost while trying to get round the country in under 112 hours.
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Old 15-02-2007, 23:38   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Wheeler
But isn't that for Ships, as in big things. Cat 1 is for smaller vessels is it not??

As for Cat requirements, my beef is not in regards to safety equipment requirments. I think anyone not taking essentials like flares, liferaft, medical kit etc etc are plain stupid sailing in our waters. But I do have a beef with the requirements of stability and keel bolts and so on when I am far more qualified to inspect these area's than they are. Plus other stupid things like proving experiance in both sailing and navigation. IMO they should be out booking these damn fizz boats and jet ski's that break all the laws and buzz around the lovely quite bays to close to moored/anchored vessels and all the idiots that have no clue on which side they should pass and what marker colour should go where and so on, than worry about the finer details of seriouse sailors.
Oh Wheels... you sound so sexy when your angry

340mts of steel with 23 floors (for F's sake) arriving 7am tomorrow. Had to slow from the 27knts (cruising speed) it was doing so it did not arrive early. Big fireworks display tomorrow night on departure. I'm going (from my Baywater marina, Hi pwederell) out for a watch on the water.

Now I think I'm confused. pwederell with an extended Whiting 29. That bit is fine but add in 20 tons and 120hp and there's the confusion. Please tell me we are talking 2 differant boats here.... please. Having come 2nd in the W29 Nats a few years back I don't remember any looking that heavy
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Old 15-02-2007, 23:43   #45
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Hi Gmac, I was talking about the Pride of Auckland boats. I've just started as skipper/fixit man for them. Sure is easier to handle the Whiting. I would be interested in hearing your advice & experience on the W29. We're on C10 but won't be onboard until tomorrow afternoon. No sightseeing for us as I have the steering in bits at the mo.
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