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cat man do · 18-01-2007, 17:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by dana-tenacity

At present, they tried to impose it on visiting foreign flagged vessels a few years back, it got tested in the courts and was tossed out. The rumour mill tells me they are thinking of trying again in July this year. Beware if you are a foreign vessel thinking to visit this season beware, you may not be able to leave without spending lots of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Well if that's the case you can tell the NZ tourism and Govt. guy's to forget about my $$$$$.

I aint goin,

And I was so looking forward to steaming hot bowl's of mussel chowder, and crisp white wines.

Dave

southernman · 18-01-2007, 18:55

The exact navigation requirements as per the book are:

Compass - marine type, properly installed and adjusted and current deviation card

Spare Compass - suitable for steering (may be handbearing)

Note - A GPS is not a acceptabel compass

Charts and plotting equipment including NZ almannac, local tide tables

Sextant - Recommended only but this conflicts with another rule later in the rules

Fitted GPS plus one or more hand held GPS

Lead line or echo sounder

Log or distance measureing instrument (gps not a substitute)

Navigation lights

day shapes - recommended

Barometer

Thats all folks under navigation equipment - not 3 gps's but you must have 2 which is fair enough.

My experience having done 2 yachts now through Cat 1 is that it is not a problem as long as you have a plan for everything even if don't have exactly what the book says - for instance it made no sense carrying a dan bouy on my single handed delivery trip to Fiji as I was going to be unable to throw it to myself!! however the inspector tried to insist it was required!! We had a great discussion about that!

I've got no problem with people not wanting to comply with Cat 1 and I agree that it should be free will to comply for cruising yachts, however dont' expect my tax's to pay for your pick up out of the drink when the sh1t hits the fan, and don't carry an EPIRB or radio because you want to be independant - remember!

Cat 1 is a start and yes it could be improved but generally it's a good idea in my humble opinion, otherwise we would have bloody trailer sailers trying to leave NZ for the islands! How many yachty's do you hear moaning about unprepaired yachts heading to the islands every year when 1 or 2 yachts get capsized - heaps is the answer.

I agree that at the end of the day it comes down to your yachts structural ability and most of importantly how tough you are mentally. It has been proven time and time again that while seamanship is important it is not the most important thing - mental toughness is what needs to be measured for Cat 1.

Cheers
Southernman

bru · 19-01-2007, 00:57

Just out of curiosity ('cos the chances of us ever making it to the antipodes are slim at best) is there anything on this Cat 1 requirement list that any right minded sensible long distance cruiser wouldn't already have?

Apart from, perhaps, the NZ Almanac, everything else on that list looks pretty sensible to me and kind've minimum required equipment?

David_Old_Jersey · 19-01-2007, 03:07

mmmmmm doesn't sound too bad.

I am glad that it doesn't make things like Sat Phone, EPIRB and Radar compulsory. Not that I am will be in the vicinty of NZ by boat for "a while"!!..........still fancy going back, this time for a run around by motorbike! - a grrrrrrrrrreat place to visit, but that's another thread / website!!

I am not overly keen on the idea of anything applying to foreign vessels, but at the end of the day it is their country - and to be honest if I had to buy a sextant as the price of access, I would do..........as long they don't start testing!!

Alchemist · 19-01-2007, 03:13

I just posted this to see some debate
please don't let this put any oversea people off coming to our beautiful country you will love it if you like cruising
can not remember exact change to regs re foreign boats as was told July last year when I suggested to my cat one inspector that I would go overseas flag if he failed me. it may be just to catch duel passport holders using this dodge
Most of the gear is just common sense. I carried 2 vhf epirb flares compass sea anchor flares life jackets 3 bilge pumps etc just to go game fishing in my trailer boat
As lots of Tahitians have gone offshore all you should need is proof your boat is well built or maybe a quick hull inspection depends on inspector either way should not be major hassle lots of this stuff is up to inspector so a little research should find a good one
it is stress full to go cat one first time had me scared #$%$^less as so much of my dream depended upon it This is probably good as sure makes you think about what you are doing
still think the drug requirement is excessive but i did not carry most of it any way
How do I Know if I can cope if I get in real heavy IE 60kn +weather being prudent I avoid it ,as would most people just have to increase knowledge read as much as I can .discuss with people etc so I am as well armed as possible if the dice come up. As the June storm proved anyone can get wasted out in the pacific though heavy ferro boats survived that better than most. Thats why I got 45 feet of pavement to go in better to have heavy and slow than to get bounced around and bashed for one less day of travell lots of debate about this else where (ps returned in 7.25days average 6.5 kn for 1144nm not that slow)

a gentleman should have a boat same length in feet as his age in years

GMac · 19-01-2007, 17:54

Yeap something is happening in NZ around July. Just brought another boat in and both were given Temp Exemption Certs (so no paying local taxs sort of thing) but only until July. Up till now it was 12 months.

Hows this then. Built a Mini Transat boat, 6.5mts to do the race but thenm the bloody French did a silly and now I do not measure. Boat built to sail single handed across oceans i.e bloody strong. I'd cut a 50fter in 1/2 if I T boned it.

Went to get Cat 1 here.
No inboard motor but after the demo of a 3.3hp outboard (damn near planes) we got around that.
No Danbouy but when asked how I would deploy it if the only person is not on the boat.. Yeah no worries don't worry about that.
No fixed water tanks. Tied string to water bottles and around mast. All fine.
And a few other things like that which I got around.

The big sticking point? No fixed toilet. 2 months of discussion later I get 'You are required to fit a fixed toilet seat and we suggest it is over at least a bucket'. Funny shaped Carbon dunny seat fitted until inspection finished and then converts to a chute for the kites

All of that and we come down to a bloody dunny seat. Makes one wonder at times who has too much time on their hands. I suspect there could have been a fair amount of "6.5mts is too small to go offshore in" by the old school inspectors. The same ones who just let a Farr boat go that has decks like a trampoline they are so soft and rotten. Go figure.

southernman · 19-01-2007, 22:51

that's just the navigation requirements - you actually have many other requirements as well such as EPIRB etc which if anyone is interested I can post but the book is back on the yacht.

Cheers

NoTies · 19-01-2007, 23:40

My biggest problem with the system (apart from the dunny seat type things which are going to be inconsistent depending on the whims of the individual surveyor) is the actual qualifications the survetors are required to possess.
"We are very interested in skippers with extensive overseas sailing experience in yachts preferably their own as that ensures they get lots of "difficult" maintainence problems."
is a direct quote from a reply I sent YNZ regarding the qualifications necessary to become a yacht inspector. If I am paying a fee (albeit very small) I expect the get quality inspection & advice. Fair enough, extensive overseas sailing is hard to beat but how does it qualify someone to tell me either a/ my keel isn't going to fall off or b/ I have to remove my keel or bolts to check. A huge expense when they don't necessarily have the skills to determine what is necessary.
As someone who has surveyed boats for commercial and insurance purposes I have to rely on someone without any such qualifications to tell me whether or not I can leave the country in my boat.
NZ is responsible for 12.5% of the world's oceans for SAR so it is a large burden for such a small country but my insurance policy covers any associated costs so no taxpayer will be picking up the tab.
NZ has had the misfortune of building up a very large bureaucracy and unfortunately they have a habit of making up laws to justify their existence. The amount of new (and in my mind unjustified) regulations we have had to suffer in recent years has made this a less desireable country to live than it used to be.

southernman · 20-01-2007, 02:21

I agree on the drugs - I mean you are required to carry some pretty nasty stuff - and do you or your Cat 1 inspector really know how to inject Morphene? I suggest not!! My wife (a doctor) was shocked at the inspectors description of how to inject morphene - and advised him that you could easily kill someone if the instructed method was used. His answer was "oh well call maritine radio and ask for their doctor for advise" I imagine SSB in one hand needle in other, wife out cold, boat rolling, water pouring in type emergency LOL what are they thinking of? I guess if I had to pay for the drugs I also would not take them as it is a significant cost at around $ 1000. Thats a couple of months/years worth of rum which is a fine pain killer!!

**Alan Wheeler** · 20-01-2007, 16:52

I believe 95% of the requirments for the Cat1 are good requirments to have. And I would think most ocean going vessels will have them anyway. It is just the few stupid ones like toilet seat etc that let is down. Although the majority of boats are going to have one, it is still one issue that should be upto the skipper how he wants everyone to take a umm...contemplation.
However, I was just reading an article on US Coastgaurd rules by a guy that was boarded and inspected. What I feel is worse than our Cat1. At least Cat1 is based solely around saftey. But what this guy had to comply with seemd that things like the holding tank seacock being tied to closed was of more importance than a boats safety.

dana-tenacity · 20-01-2007, 19:31

There are a number of big ticket items I would not want to have, personal choice and not everyone would agree with me, but I feel I have enough offshore experience to make the decisions myself.
Didn't realise they had a log in there. After trashing my third one I gave up and sailed without one for many years, was always able to get my daily run to within 5 miles, never felt a log was such a big deal after that.

GMac · 20-01-2007, 20:39

Apart form my toilet seat issue, which to be fair is on a very non-normal sort of vessel, I've had no dramas ever leaving here or coming in untill very recently. Had a few checks and so on but nothing to get grumpy about.

Actually I thought all the checks I've had were a bit slack really. "Can you navigate?", "Yes" was all that one took and never checked. Generally I find they give the safety stuff a good once over to see if it's in test and the right sort of size and so on. Have a suss of the rudder gudgeons and/or barings, engine mounts, rigging screws pinned and the like. Nothing more than you should do yourself before you go.

I have a lot to do with many offshore crusiers that come here and none have experianced anything to spooky. I think the rules are there just to pick up the odd nutter which they have once or twice. That dude that was going to row thru the roaring 40's (took off and the NZ taxpayer rescued him twice), the luntic Russians (one of which was a serious looker) that thought they were in the Waitamata harbour (East coast) only to find they were actually on the West Coast. Those Aussies that had a bareboat, a packet of weetbix and a road map (err not quite but very close, shockers) and were off to the Islands.

I think it's more of a 'We can if we want too if you're an idiot' rather than a 'We will'. I have no problem with that as I'm a taxpayer and we do seem to rescue many who are either not well prepared or just do dumb stuff and most are not NZ boats. Sending 1/2 our Defense Forces (the massive water and airborne fleet it is.... not) deep into the Sth Ocean is not cheap. If it's a legit rescue I have no problem but if we can stop any nutters before we have to rescue them I'm happier. That big cock-up a few years back with the fleet going to Tonga cost us a huge pile when a couple of those boats did not need to be rescued if they used their head a bit more. Not to mention the possible lose of the rescuers. I know one of the cheeses on one of the Frigates who was in that lot and he described it as a underwear changing experiance in many ways and something they could do well without.