Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 19-04-2013, 11:27   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 3
Navigation Light on less than 7m(22foot)

Hello all and sorry for the trivial question,

Can I go on a boat without navigation light but only white light in place where it can be seen in order to avoid collision (big electric lantern half way on the mast).

Thank you very much
__________________

__________________
dingy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-04-2013, 11:49   #2
Registered User
 
Zanshin's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Caribbean
Boat: Jeanneau 57
Posts: 1,621
Re: navigation light on less than 7m(22foot)

You will need to explain a bit more about the vessel before a COLREGs valid answer can be given.

It sounds like a sailboat without an electrical system. How long is the boat?

Addendum: I just saw the thread title and noted that the sailboat is 7m long.

The COLREGS state that no lights are necessary for a sailboat under 7m, except a torch/lantern or similar device to shine at other boats.

Some country rules are stricter - which country are you in?

COLREGS Paragraph 25 ( Lights for sailing and rowing vessels)
(d) 1. A sailing vessel of less than 7 metres (23.0 ft) in length shall, if practicable, exhibit the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) or (b) of this Rule, but if she does not, she shall have ready at hand an electric torch or lighted lantern showing a white light which shall be exhibited in sufficient time to prevent collision.
__________________

__________________
-Zanshin (SV Zanshin)
Zanshin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-04-2013, 12:27   #3
Registered User

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Grenada
Boat: Shorebro,Royal 33 - Aloisius
Posts: 927
Re: Navigation Light on less than 7m(22foot)

I agree that that is the reg, although if you are sailing at night in a 37 foot boat, I would definitely want to have running lights. Except for maybe a dinghy, if you are out in open water, boats can come up out of nowhere in a hurry and it is nice to be noticed from afar rather that at the last minute.
__________________
landonshaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-04-2013, 12:58   #4
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Seattle
Boat: Cal 40
Posts: 2,401
Images: 7
Re: Navigation Light on less than 7m(22foot)

Quote:
Originally Posted by landonshaw View Post
I agree that that is the reg, although if you are sailing at night in a 37 foot boat, I would definitely want to have running lights. Except for maybe a dinghy, if you are out in open water, boats can come up out of nowhere in a hurry and it is nice to be noticed from afar rather that at the last minute.
What does a 37 foot boat have to do with a reg for a sailboat under 7 meters long (22.97 feet) with no motor?
__________________
cal40john is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-04-2013, 13:10   #5
Registered User
 
Dennis.G's Avatar

Join Date: May 2011
Location: Sea of Cortez and the U.P. of Michigan
Boat: Celestial 48
Posts: 750
Re: Navigation Light on less than 7m(22foot)

However if sailboat was under power (say outboard motor) would be required to have the normal navigations lights.
__________________
Dennis.G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-04-2013, 15:02   #6
Registered User
 
Zanshin's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Caribbean
Boat: Jeanneau 57
Posts: 1,621
Re: Navigation Light on less than 7m(22foot)

Dennis.G - that's unfortunately not quite right, power driven vessels are covered by Chapter 23:

A power-driven vessel of less than 7 metres (23.0 ft) whose maximum speed does not exceed 7 knots (13 km/h; 8 mph) must be capable of showing a white light
__________________
-Zanshin (SV Zanshin)
Zanshin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-04-2013, 15:10   #7
Registered User
 
Wind River's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: San Diego
Boat: Hudson Force 50 Center Cockpit
Posts: 221
Re: Navigation Light on less than 7m(22foot)

Here in San Diego you will need proper nav lights, even for a dinghy.

In traveling the 500 yards in my 11.5' dinghy, from my mooring to the launch ramp, I was cited for not having the proper nav lights. I did have an all around white light and was traveling at approx 5kts under power. I was leaving my boat at the end of a 4 day weekend trip and loaded with gear and neglected to put my PFD in the dinghy or wear it. I was cited for that too. I didn't have a fire extinguisher or a sounding device, I was warned that I needed to have those but not cited.

So why the story? Because in San Diego (I don't know about anywhere else) these are misdemeanor offenses, punishable by $1000 fine or 30 days in jail each!!!!
At my criminal court arraignment they added back on the fire extingusher charge but bargained with my public defender to drop the nav light and fire extinguisher charge if I would plead guilty to not having a PFD and they would reduce it to an infraction that only commands a $239 fine.

Get proper Navigation lights even if you are right with the ColRegs.
__________________
Wind River is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-04-2013, 15:21   #8
Registered User
 
Target9000's Avatar

Join Date: May 2009
Location: New Orleans LA
Boat: 74 Westsail 32
Posts: 1,379
Re: Navigation Light on less than 7m(22foot)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wind River View Post
Here in San Diego you will need proper nav lights, even for a dinghy.

In traveling the 500 yards in my 11.5' dinghy, from my mooring to the launch ramp, I was cited for not having the proper nav lights. I did have an all around white light and was traveling at approx 5kts under power. I was leaving my boat at the end of a 4 day weekend trip and loaded with gear and neglected to put my PFD in the dinghy or wear it. I was cited for that too. I didn't have a fire extinguisher or a sounding device, I was warned that I needed to have those but not cited.

So why the story? Because in San Diego (I don't know about anywhere else) these are misdemeanor offenses, punishable by $1000 fine or 30 days in jail each!!!!
At my criminal court arraignment they added back on the fire extingusher charge but bargained with my public defender to drop the nav light and fire extinguisher charge if I would plead guilty to not having a PFD and they would reduce it to an infraction that only commands a $239 fine.

Get proper Navigation lights even if you are right with the ColRegs.
Wow... That sucks man. Sorry you got raped by the authorities. And thanks for sharing. Also welcome aboard.
__________________
Let your heart tell you where to go, but let your brain tell you how to get there.

Sundowner Sails Again
Target9000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-04-2013, 16:17   #9
Registered User
 
Zanshin's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Caribbean
Boat: Jeanneau 57
Posts: 1,621
Re: Navigation Light on less than 7m(22foot)

I'm a bit curious about Wind River's comments. Did I understand it correctly that the San Diego water police requires a sounding device and fire extinguisher in the dinghy as well, or did that refer to the main boat? I've heard of places requiring PFDs for all aboard a dinghy and a white all-around light and (in Sint Maarten) an anchor, but have never heard of a fire extinguisher being required; that's the first time I've heard of that.
__________________
-Zanshin (SV Zanshin)
Zanshin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-04-2013, 16:49   #10
Registered User
 
Wind River's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: San Diego
Boat: Hudson Force 50 Center Cockpit
Posts: 221
Re: Navigation Light on less than 7m(22foot)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zanshin View Post
I'm a bit curious about Wind River's comments. Did I understand it correctly that the San Diego water police requires a sounding device and fire extinguisher in the dinghy as well, or did that refer to the main boat? I've heard of places requiring PFDs for all aboard a dinghy and a white all-around light and (in Sint Maarten) an anchor, but have never heard of a fire extinguisher being required; that's the first time I've heard of that.

Those are the requirements for the dinghy! They cited Title 14 regulations (California Code of Regulations) . Since I am at Shelter Island, I have to dinghy right by the lions den (Police and Customs) to tie up my dinghy just to take my dog for a walk. I make sure I have them all.

I don't mean to bash the Harbor Police, they were just doing their job, keeping us all safe on the water. But then again, if I was so unsafe on that night, I would think I would have been escorted to the launch ramp, you know, for my safety.
Ok, maybe a little bashing.
__________________
Wind River is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-04-2013, 16:53   #11
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Seattle
Boat: Cal 40
Posts: 2,401
Images: 7
Re: Navigation Light on less than 7m(22foot)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zanshin View Post
I'm a bit curious about Wind River's comments. Did I understand it correctly that the San Diego water police requires a sounding device and fire extinguisher in the dinghy as well, or did that refer to the main boat? I've heard of places requiring PFDs for all aboard a dinghy and a white all-around light and (in Sint Maarten) an anchor, but have never heard of a fire extinguisher being required; that's the first time I've heard of that.
In the U.S. the following applies, doesn't matter the size of the boat or that it's a dinghy.

http://www.uscgboating.org/assets/1/...ations/420.PDF

Fire extinguishers are required on boats when any of the
following
conditions exist:
• There are closed compartments and compartments under seats
where portable fuel tanks may be stored .
• There are double bottoms not sealed to the hull or that are not
completely filled with flotation materials .
• There are closed living spaces .
• There are closed stowage compartments, in which combustible or
flammable materials are stored .
• There are permanently installed fuel tanks . (Fuel tanks secured
so they cannot be moved in case of a fire or other emergency
are considered permanently installed . Also, if the weight of a
fuel
tank is such that persons on board cannot move it, the U .S .
Coast
Guard may consider it permanently inst
__________________
cal40john is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-04-2013, 17:27   #12
Registered User
 
Astrid's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Northern British Columbia, part of the time in Prince Rupert and part of the time on Moresby Island.
Boat: 50-ft steel Ketch
Posts: 1,885
Send a message via MSN to Astrid Send a message via Yahoo to Astrid
Re: Navigation Light on less than 7m(22foot)

See:

http://www.dbw.ca.gov/Pubs/Abc/Required_Equipment.pdf
__________________
'Tis evening on the moorland free,The starlit wave is still: Home is the sailor from the sea, The hunter from the hill.
Astrid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-04-2013, 17:44   #13
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Santa Cruz
Boat: Boatless Again
Posts: 4,335
Re: Navigation Light on less than 7m(22foot)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astrid View Post
From the above publication:

Fire extinguishers are not required for outboard pleasure boats
less than 26 feet in length, or those that are not carrying passengers for
hire, have no permanently installed fuel tanks, or do not have spaces in
which explosive or flammable gases or vapors can collect.


A good public defender would have done some research in the 5 minutes he spent on your case
__________________
donradcliffe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-04-2013, 18:18   #14
Registered User
 
Wind River's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: San Diego
Boat: Hudson Force 50 Center Cockpit
Posts: 221
Re: Navigation Light on less than 7m(22foot)

Quote:
Originally Posted by donradcliffe View Post
From the above publication:

Fire extinguishers are not required for outboard pleasure boats
less than 26 feet in length, or those that are not carrying passengers for
hire, have no permanently installed fuel tanks, or do not have spaces in
which explosive or flammable gases or vapors can collect.

A good public defender would have done some research in the 5 minutes he spent on your case

I didn't realize I was even going to need defending on that charge as I wasn't cited for it. Apparently they can add charges just from the officers notes. Even so, I suppose it could be argued a dinghy could hold flammable gases or vapors if fuel were spilled in it. Otherwise I would be guilty of polluting the bay by spilling fuel from the dinghy!

I was prepared to argue the Nav lights myself but they were going to drop that charge anyway. I was guilty of not having the PFD and I couldn't argue that point. Since this was the arraignment, I could only plead innocent or guilty otherwise I would have had to come back another day and have a trial. I have never been involved in a bigger waste of time and resources.
__________________
Wind River is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-04-2013, 19:28   #15
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Cruising NC, FL, Bahamas, TCI & VIs
Boat: 1964 Pearson Ariel 'Faith' / Pearson 424, sv Emerald Tide
Posts: 1,531
Re: Navigation Light on less than 7m(22foot)

Wind River,

Welcome to the forum. Thank you for sharing your story.... I am speechless.

Wow....

Public defender, for a dingy infraction...

Wow.
__________________

__________________
s/v 'Faith' is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
navigation

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
marine survey advice Ardi Monohull Sailboats 13 28-02-2013 18:07
anchor light problem edbulmer Marine Electronics 10 19-01-2013 09:58
All round Yellow Navigation Light Function stillbuilding Rules of the Road, Regulations & Red Tape 16 07-02-2012 08:42
iPad Route Navigation Cotemar Navigation 3 05-05-2011 07:25



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 16:51.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.