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Old 22-02-2018, 01:02   #1
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MF / HF Radio mandatory for UK flagged boats going offshore?

I've been looking over the RYA Equipment for UK Pleasure Vessels document (http://www.rya.org.uk/SiteCollection...%20Vessels.pdf) and it lists 'MF / HF Radio' as mandatory (depending on area of operation) for pleasure vessels more than 13.7m in length.

Then straight after it says that 'SSB radio and / or Satellite telephone' are discretionary.

So what's the difference between MF / HF radio and SSB here, and do all UK flagged offshore cruisers carry one?
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Old 22-02-2018, 01:08   #2
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Re: MF / HF Radio mandatory for UK flagged boats going offshore?

I think you'll find it's only commercial vessels that are regulated (operate within a code of practice) privately operated boats can have as little as they like!
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Old 22-02-2018, 02:46   #3
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Re: MF / HF Radio mandatory for UK flagged boats going offshore?

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Originally Posted by edsailing View Post
I think you'll find it's only commercial vessels that are regulated (operate within a code of practice) privately operated boats can have as little as they like!


Not correct, refer to the link the OP provided. Pleasure craft have requirements that differ only by under/over 13 m LOA (and another set of requirements when over 24 m). But Im not sure who would bother checking, especially if not in UK waters.
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Old 22-02-2018, 11:51   #4
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Re: MF / HF Radio mandatory for UK flagged boats going offshore?

You can have SSB on HF, or on VHF, or even on CB radios. So when someone says "HF or MF required" that's talking about a radio which can communicate on certain frequencies. The communication might use CW (continuous wave, Morse Code) or AM (amplitude modulation) or FM (frequency modulation) or SSB (single side band) where SSB is actually just "one side" of an AM signal, allowing more effective use of the power.

So I see two different things being stated to you. The first requiring a radio capable of specific frequencies, the second referring to specific operating modes as being optional, as well as the satcom equipment.

You might ask the RYA to clear that up, citing actual regulations, or ask OFCOM(?) whoever does your actual radio licensing regulation there? for their take on the matter.
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Old 22-02-2018, 15:30   #5
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Re: MF / HF Radio mandatory for UK flagged boats going offshore?

Quote:
Originally Posted by terah View Post
I've been looking over the RYA Equipment for UK Pleasure Vessels document (http://www.rya.org.uk/SiteCollection...%20Vessels.pdf) and it lists 'MF / HF Radio' as mandatory (depending on area of operation) for pleasure vessels more than 13.7m in length.

Then straight after it says that 'SSB radio and / or Satellite telephone' are discretionary.

So what's the difference between MF / HF radio and SSB here, and do all UK flagged offshore cruisers carry one?
Think you've maybe hit on some discrepancies on the RYA site, they're usually very good.

Onboard Communications | Keep In Touch | Safe Boating | Safe Boating | Knowledge & Advice | Knowledge & Advice | RYA
Quote:
Is it mandatory?
Owners of UK pleasure craft of 13.7m in length and over that go to sea, should be aware that communications equipment is mandatory under the Merchant Shipping Regulations.
Pleasure Craft Regulations | Regulations | Knowledge & Advice | Knowledge & Advice | RYA
Quote:
Maritime Radio

The Merchant Shipping (Radio Installations) Regulations 1998 do not apply to Pleasure Vessels, it is therefore not mandatory for a Pleasure Vessel to have a "radio installation" on board.
The Merchant Shipping (Radio Installations) Regulations 1998
Quote:
(2) These Regulations shall not apply to

(a)troopships not registered in the United Kingdom;
(b)ships not propelled by mechanical means;
(c)pleasure vessels;
(d)fishing vessels;
(e)cargo ships of less than 300 tons; and
(f)craft to which the Merchant Shipping (High-Speed Craft) Regulations 1996(12) apply.
You could email the RYA for clarification - they're very helpful.
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Old 23-02-2018, 12:58   #6
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Re: MF / HF Radio mandatory for UK flagged boats going offshore?

Remember the old 27meg marine radio ,, thats in the HF spectrum ,
they were "AM" sets small cheap worked great ,
Then there are HF SSB with the right propergation you can send a transmition world wide (if the skip is right )
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Old 23-02-2018, 14:08   #7
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Re: MF / HF Radio mandatory for UK flagged boats going offshore?

The first bit says you HAVE to have the long distance Hf/MF radio, pleasure craft or not.

The other things you can please yourself--but having them does not mean you do not need the HF/MF.

So--it makes sense to have long range equipment even if you have no friends, want to avoid everyone -even if only to send a distress signal or to be notified of something important to mariners--such as WEATHER.
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Old 23-02-2018, 14:10   #8
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Re: MF / HF Radio mandatory for UK flagged boats going offshore?

I think you will find 27 megs is NOT HF--it is UHF.

Very limited in range and of no use whatsoever offshore passage-making unless to hail a passing vessel in plain sight.
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Old 23-02-2018, 14:47   #9
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Re: MF / HF Radio mandatory for UK flagged boats going offshore?

The RYA is not a regulatory agency. It is not a government administer of legislation. It is a good organisation but it does not write the law. Which is not to say it is right or wrong, simply that what you are required to comply with is the relevant legislation not an RYA code of practice
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Old 23-02-2018, 15:18   #10
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Re: MF / HF Radio mandatory for UK flagged boats going offshore?

RYA is an Association group that provides guidance and regulation, primarily for yachts engaging in RYAN sanctioned events e.g. racing. Their remit doesn't cover cruising but many find their guidance and regulations useful to achieve a standard when cruising especially offshore.

However the tactics and equipment required for racing Vs. Cruising can be very different, especially if the later is sailing shorthanded e.g. a couple.

RYA like many authorities are cautious of changing safety equipment or regs without due consideration, but areas such as communication are rapidly evolving. This has led to events being conducted where alternate comms equipment has been allowed e.g satellite telephone vs. HF radios.
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Old 23-02-2018, 15:32   #11
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Re: MF / HF Radio mandatory for UK flagged boats going offshore?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Banks View Post
I think you will find 27 megs is NOT HF--it is UHF.

Very limited in range and of no use whatsoever offshore passage-making unless to hail a passing vessel in plain sight.
The HF band is 3 MHz to 30 MHz so 27 megs is certainly in the HF band. It occasionally experiences skip etc but as you note, it is not much use for off shore cruising.

FWIW, the UHF band is 300 MHz to 3 GHz and the VHF band lies between HF and UHF.
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Old 23-02-2018, 15:49   #12
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Re: MF / HF Radio mandatory for UK flagged boats going offshore?

Quote:
Originally Posted by terah View Post
I've been looking over the RYA Equipment for UK Pleasure Vessels document (http://www.rya.org.uk/SiteCollection...%20Vessels.pdf) and it lists 'MF / HF Radio' as mandatory (depending on area of operation) for pleasure vessels more than 13.7m in length.

Then straight after it says that 'SSB radio and / or Satellite telephone' are discretionary.

So what's the difference between MF / HF radio and SSB here, and do all UK flagged offshore cruisers carry one?
Its wrong advice. I will look where the correct info is when I get the time. Hopefully someone else will go straight to it.
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Old 23-02-2018, 15:57   #13
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pirate Re: MF / HF Radio mandatory for UK flagged boats going offshore?

All you need is a VHF Radio.. SSB etc is optional..

Maritime Radio
The Merchant Shipping (Radio Installations) Regulations 1998 do not apply to Pleasure Vessels, it is therefore not mandatory for a Pleasure Vessel to have a "radio installation" on board. It is however highly recommended that vessels are equipped with maritime radio equipment suitable for the area of operation. See Calling for help for further guidance on equipping your boat.
Where a VHF radio or other maritime radio equipment (such as an EPIRB, AIS, ATIS, Radar etc.) is carried, the equipment must be licensed.
A Ship Radio Licence (or Ship Portable Radio Licence) will be required for most boats together with a maritime radio operator certificate authorising the operation of maritime radio equipment if applicable.In the UK Ship Radio Licences and Ship Portable Radio Licences are issued by Ofcom.
For equipment capable of voice transmissions a maritime radio operator licence (such as the Short Range Certificate (SRC)) is usually also required for the operator. RYA Members can refer to Licensing Onboard Electronics [RYA Members Only] for further guidance.
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Old 23-02-2018, 20:52   #14
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Re: MF / HF Radio mandatory for UK flagged boats going offshore?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Banks View Post
I think you will find 27 megs is NOT HF--it is UHF.

Very limited in range and of no use whatsoever offshore passage-making unless to hail a passing vessel in plain sight.

ITU
Band Number Abbreviation Frequency range
6 MF 300 to 3000 kHz
7 HF 3 to 30 MHz "27 meg sits here "
8 VHF 30 to 300 MHz
9 UHF 300 to 3000 MHz


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Old 24-02-2018, 06:50   #15
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Re: MF / HF Radio mandatory for UK flagged boats going offshore?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Banks View Post
I think you will find 27 megs is NOT HF--it is UHF.

Very limited in range and of no use whatsoever offshore passage-making unless to hail a passing vessel in plain sight.


Nope
MF .3-3mhz
HF 3-30mhz
VHF 30-300mhz
UHF 300-3000mhz
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