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Old 12-10-2011, 23:07   #16
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Re: Marine Diesel Regulations

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Originally Posted by tropicalescape View Post
Boats with a diesel engine are not on the road, so off road products can be used..it does make a mess sometime when filling from a can,make sure you have some dish soap to hit any that may inadvertantly get in the water...DVC
You really should tell him the part about if you're in the U.S. if you get caught cleaning up a fuel spill with detergent it is a $10,000 fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief Engineer View Post
It always amazes me how people try to save a few cents on fuel......

Think of the time and aggravation you spend.

Just like the people that buy those gas-boys and wheel them down the dock.

A lot of Marinas I know of forbid them....They don't wan't either bombs or spills.
In one direction it's a half hour motor to a place on the lake that is out of the way of anywhere I want to go to get to the fuel dock, which 5 months out of the year that the lake is lowered for the winter it is too shallow for me to get to. The other direction I also have to motor about a half hour and open 2 bridges and wind up on a small lake or have to motor all the way back. Many times when I'm headed out onto salt water, I try to leave in the evening to avoid traffic at the locks, so all the fuel docks are closed. (Can be as little as 15 minutes through the small locks with little traffic, as much as 2-3 hours to get through the large locks filled with boats.)

Small locks:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mikerob...n/photostream/

Large locks:
Ballard Locks, Seattle | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

In my case anyway, the time and aggravation is to get to a fuel dock. Dumping a jerry can of diesel in the boat a few times a year is trivial.

John
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Old 13-10-2011, 09:09   #17
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Re: Marine Diesel Regulations

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Originally Posted by cal40john View Post
You really should tell him the part about if you're in the U.S. if you get caught cleaning up a fuel spill with detergent it is a $10,000 fine.



In one direction it's a half hour motor to a place on the lake that is out of the way of anywhere I want to go to get to the fuel dock, which 5 months out of the year that the lake is lowered for the winter it is too shallow for me to get to. The other direction I also have to motor about a half hour and open 2 bridges and wind up on a small lake or have to motor all the way back. Many times when I'm headed out onto salt water, I try to leave in the evening to avoid traffic at the locks, so all the fuel docks are closed. (Can be as little as 15 minutes through the small locks with little traffic, as much as 2-3 hours to get through the large locks filled with boats.)

Small locks:
Ballard Locks - Sailboat | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Large locks:
Ballard Locks, Seattle | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

In my case anyway, the time and aggravation is to get to a fuel dock. Dumping a jerry can of diesel in the boat a few times a year is trivial.

John
If you inadvertanly spill fuel they fine you... so..I would rather get rid of it rather then let a slick linger around my boat..six to some half a dozen to others.a fine is a fine and the operative word was"inadvertantly"
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Old 13-10-2011, 09:22   #18
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Re: Marine Diesel Regulations

I use a funnel, don't over fill the jerry cans and never spill. I make sure the nozzle is in the funnel before upending the can.
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Old 13-10-2011, 09:41   #19
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Re: Marine Diesel Regulations

In the "old days" diesel at the fuel dock was cheaper than gas station diesel as many posters have mentioned. But today, marinas have found a source of profit that they had overlooked before - the convenience of refueling your boat at the marina.

- - Here in Florida where I am located it is not uncommon for marina fuel dock diesel to be significantly higher priced than road/gas station diesel. Sometimes it is very close to gas station prices and sometimes it is much higher. It has to do with how much "competition" is around. Good old "capitalism" at work.

- - But again, as posters have mentioned, how much "inconvenience" are you willing to deal with lugging small jerry jugs of heavy diesel from the gas station to the boat as compared with the small savings in price differential?

- - All the rules/laws, etc. have long ago disappeared as tax/non-taxed and high/low/ultra low diesel choices have been eliminated and now there is only one choice of diesel available be it at the marina or at the gas station. A new twist is that marina fuel docks are advertising "special marine additives" as a reason for their "higher" prices than at the gas station.

- - Outside the USA - e.g., in the islands, marinas and fuel docks can be few and far between, so you have no choice but to lug jerry cans of diesel from the local gas station to the boat.
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Old 13-10-2011, 15:05   #20
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Re: Marine Diesel Regulations

Quote:
If you inadvertanly spill fuel they fine you... so..I would rather get rid of it rather then let a slick linger around my boat..six to some half a dozen to others.a fine is a fine and the operative word was"inadvertantly"
Coreexit oil dispersant

do all you really think a small tiny sheen can compare to what oil drillers do?

Life is full of pleasant government ordinances designed to rob you.
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Old 13-10-2011, 15:09   #21
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Re: Marine Diesel Regulations

back in the late 80's, outdrive hit a rock and cracked open on the James River. USCG towed us back to port. It was dark, I could not see any oil, no one said a thing even as I pulled the boat onto the trailer and I showed the USCG the jagged crack on the gear case.
But you know the gear oil must have leaked out.
They were quite sympathetic and friendly.

My slipmate sailboat's engine oil trans cooler failed internally. The thing developed a leak, all the oil pumping out and he did not know anything had happened till the trans locked up as he was motoring on the ICW.

I often wondered about those oil coolers, they certainly can let go of a lot of engine oil. What would happen to you or what would you do if that was your cooler that leaked out?
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Old 13-10-2011, 16:31   #22
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Re: Marine Diesel Regulations

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdowney717 View Post
Coreexit oil dispersant

do all you really think a small tiny sheen can compare to what oil drillers do?

Life is full of pleasant government ordinances designed to rob you.
I dont think I am as bad an enviro. bandit than big oil,but an over zelious cop can give you a hard time for just about anything...what ever happened to the couple down in Fla. that got jerked around by what "appeard" to be such a cop?they crimanalize kids for smoking left handed cigs. An oil slick can get you, like the other guy said a $10,000 fine..DVC
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Old 13-10-2011, 16:57   #23
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Re: Marine Diesel Regulations

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Originally Posted by tropicalescape View Post
If you inadvertanly spill fuel they fine you... so..I would rather get rid of it rather then let a slick linger around my boat..six to some half a dozen to others.a fine is a fine and the operative word was"inadvertantly"
Haven't found the actual CFRs yet but I did find a report of someone that was fined $500 dollars for not reporting his oil spill, presumably the fine would be less, $50 or nothing if he had reported it. I don't know if they would hit you with the full $10000 fine for putting detergent on it, but it seems that the trend is the more you try to hide it or make it environmentally worse (adding detergent) the higher the fine will be.

BoatUS article:
Oil & Water A Fine Mess | Boat/US Magazine | Find Articles
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Old 13-10-2011, 17:51   #24
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Re: Marine Diesel Regulations

There was a diesel spill in a bay where I was about two years ago so I called Environment Canada and reported it. They already knew about it so I asked what would be done and if there was anyway I could help and they said it actually wasn't a bad spill and it would evaporate. He explained that diesel was very light so a small amount of it would cover a large area and for the same reason it evaporated quickly. It surprised me since the slick really covered a huge area but it was gone the next day.
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Old 13-10-2011, 19:12   #25
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Re: Marine Diesel Regulations

Maybe somebody somewhere has had their diesel fuel dipped and inspected on a boat for the red color, but I'm inclined to think it is a marine myth. Besides, it doesn't make any sense, as several have pointed out. The red color is to denote offroad diesel fuel, which is not subject to highway taxes. Who would care if you don't mind paying highway taxes on fuel you put in your boat? And yes, some places onroad diesel is cheaper than marine for some reason. Also, from what I understand most marine fuel docks pump the exact same fuel you would get at the gas station on the street, just with the addition of the red dye. Anyway, I frequently jug fuel to my boat. I have four jugs and can add 20 gallons that way, avoiding the hassle of upping anchor, going into a dock, etc. Sure, if I'm underway anyway it makes sense to pull up to a fuel dock, but not if I am anchored out or on a mooring. To me it is easier to do in the dink than to move the big boat in. Also, I think there is less chance of spillage and pollution using my own jugs than at the dock. My jugs do not have the flow rate of a pump and therefore any spill is likely to be much smaller and probably no more than a splash or two. On my boat that generally goes on deck where I have absorbent pads around the fuel fill, where I am using a very large funnel. I have witnessed many, many people pump gallons of fuel into the water at a fuel dock because of one moment of inattention or a slip. That won't happen using your own jugs.
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Old 13-10-2011, 19:34   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morgan3820
The dye indicates to authorities that the fuel has no road tax added to the price and is for off road use only. Such as for farm equipment or boats. One can use either the dyed or clear, the difference is that the clear costs more because of the added tax. More importantly, is that the clear fuel is ultra low sulfur and is not appropriate for most marine diesels
What does everyone think of the last sentence?
I was wondering about ULSD with theoretically less lubricants in the fuel. I called Mack Boring about my Yanmar and they thought I could use cetane additive to be safe.
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Old 13-10-2011, 19:48   #27
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Re: Marine Diesel Regulations

havent noticed any difference except the 4 extra dollars per gallon at the marine fuel docks over the road diesel.
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Old 13-10-2011, 19:54   #28
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Re: Marine Diesel Regulations

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Originally Posted by malbert73 View Post
What does everyone think of the last sentence?
I was wondering about ULSD with theoretically less lubricants in the fuel. I called Mack Boring about my Yanmar and they thought I could use cetane additive to be safe.
In most cases it's exactly the same diesel and the trucker adds the dye whenever he is delivering it for home heating oil or marinas (off road use).

The same guy and same truck delivered the same diesel to my house...drug the line out back and filled my sportfish then dumped the rest of his load at the local gas station.

So believe what you want...but go ask the guy driving the local delivery truck and you will get the REAL answer...

The guy at the marina just wants to sell more fuel.
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Old 13-10-2011, 20:23   #29
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Re: Marine Diesel Regulations

Only difference between no2 fuel oil and diesel is the dye.
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Old 13-10-2011, 20:29   #30
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Re: Marine Diesel Regulations

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I know they used to do that here in Washington as it was a tax issue. But I think it went away quite a while back. Not much point because what you saved in no-tax at a fuel dock, they tacked on in extra profit! Didnt know anywhere was still doing it ....but possible. At any rate, I doubt if anyone is watching. I put jugs of diesel from a service station in my boat in Florida. I guess the problem would be going from the boat to car .... if the revenooer is watching....
It's very common to see trailerable boats being filled at service stations.....
The law is more about farmers who buy off road diesel for their tractors. It is cheaper because it does not include all the taxes. If you ever want to see the law in action, hang around farm or livestock sales. You will eventually see someone from the state tax agency. They walk around with a long cable and a piece of white cloth. Open the fuel doors for farm trucks and stick it in the tank. If it comes out red the farmer is in trouble.

Since we all buy off road diesel at the marina and pay more than the road use prices. We are getting hosed.
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