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Old 09-08-2011, 14:49   #106
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Re: Mandating Adult Life Jacket Wear

US National Association of State Boating Law Administrators, June-August 2011 issue of "Small Craft Advisor", Matthew Long, Government Affairs article on p. 28 entitled "Selling Safety":

Excerpts:

"In April of this year, the National Boating Safety Advisory Council (NSBAC), the Federal Advisory Council to the United States Coast Guard Boating Safety Division voted resoundingly to support mandatory life jacket wear for adults on recreational vessels less than 18 feet in length....

...on the following vessel types:
* personal watercraft regardless of length;
* human-powered vessels (such as canoes, kayaks, rowboats, etc.) regardless of length;
* any vessel less than 18 feet in length; and
* for any person towed while engaged in watersports.

The Coast Guard must now decide internally whether or not they wish to pursue regulation that would conform with these recommendations. IF they decide to move forward, then the long, regulatory process will be initiated."

The article goes on to note that "in recent years the number of boating-related deaths has remained stagnant.... nothing has been successful at further reducing the number of people who are killed each year while boating.... Noting this trend, the Coast Guard and many other entities determined that the best way to further reduce the number of on-water, boating-related fatalities would be to mandate some level of life jacket wear."

So, as long as the number of people dying on the water stays the same, we can expect a push for more regulation.
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Old 09-08-2011, 15:07   #107
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Re: Mandating Adult Life Jacket Wear

OK, so let's see if this makes sense. Say this law passes. I leave my boat in my inflatable dinghy to row ashore. I'm not wearing a life jacket. I can be stopped by the Coast Guard and fined. However, if I jump off my boat and swim ashore, it's perfectly legal and there's nothing anyone can say about it. Does anyone besides me see a problem with this?

Oh, oh, I know - the law should only apply to people who can't swim! That way, the government can set up a mandatory boaters swim certification test (for a fee) and issue a government swim license (for a fee) that allows you to row ashore in your inflatable dinghy without having to wear a life jacket!
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Old 09-08-2011, 15:51   #108
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Re: Mandating Adult Life Jacket Wear

Quote:
Originally Posted by rgscpat View Post
US National Association of State Boating Law Administrators, June-August 2011 issue of "Small Craft Advisor", Matthew Long, Government Affairs article on p. 28 entitled "Selling Safety":

Excerpts:

"In April of this year, the National Boating Safety Advisory Council (NSBAC), the Federal Advisory Council to the United States Coast Guard Boating Safety Division voted resoundingly to support mandatory life jacket wear for adults on recreational vessels less than 18 feet in length....

...on the following vessel types:
* personal watercraft regardless of length;
* human-powered vessels (such as canoes, kayaks, rowboats, etc.) regardless of length;
* any vessel less than 18 feet in length; and
* for any person towed while engaged in watersports.

The Coast Guard must now decide internally whether or not they wish to pursue regulation that would conform with these recommendations. IF they decide to move forward, then the long, regulatory process will be initiated."

The article goes on to note that "in recent years the number of boating-related deaths has remained stagnant.... nothing has been successful at further reducing the number of people who are killed each year while boating.... Noting this trend, the Coast Guard and many other entities determined that the best way to further reduce the number of on-water, boating-related fatalities would be to mandate some level of life jacket wear."

So, as long as the number of people dying on the water stays the same, we can expect a push for more regulation.
Thank you for the update.

I am so mad, mad, mad.

What bullshit!

PS. I have a 16ft Jon boat for sale - really old but doesn't leak a drop. With trailer. Maybe with 15hp Honda - negotiable.
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Old 09-08-2011, 15:57   #109
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Re: Mandating Adult Life Jacket Wear

Quote:
Originally Posted by robertsapp View Post
OK, so let's see if this makes sense. Say this law passes. I leave my boat in my inflatable dinghy to row ashore. I'm not wearing a life jacket. I can be stopped by the Coast Guard and fined. However, if I jump off my boat and swim ashore, it's perfectly legal and there's nothing anyone can say about it. Does anyone besides me see a problem with this?

Oh, oh, I know - the law should only apply to people who can't swim! That way, the government can set up a mandatory boaters swim certification test (for a fee) and issue a government swim license (for a fee) that allows you to row ashore in your inflatable dinghy without having to wear a life jacket!
The difference between intentionally swimming and unintentional swimming is often death...thus PFD's.

People will want to argue this one...but you can't... the stats are there.
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Old 09-08-2011, 16:03   #110
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Re: Mandating Adult Life Jacket Wear

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The difference between intentionally swimming and unintentional swimming is often death...thus PFD's.

People will want to argue this one...but you can't... the stats are there.

I saw the ones posted and they are not very convincing.

I'll even bet two years after there is little statistical significance in the stats (and that both sides will argue that each incident is not the same and must be looked at independently - and that won't work either) and that if it does not work there is no way in hell the requirement will be lifted/removed.
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Old 09-08-2011, 16:06   #111
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Re: Mandating Adult Life Jacket Wear

Actually, if you dig deeper in the stats they don't indicate that dinghies are a major problem at all. Most of the deaths occur on small fishing boats on inland lakes or in canoes and kayaks. However, the broad brush of any legislation is likely to include those of us who use dinghies to get around. One thing we do have going for us is that the NMMA and BoatUS both oppose this law, I believe, and they do seem to have some clout.
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Old 09-08-2011, 16:13   #112
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Re: Mandating Adult Life Jacket Wear

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I saw the ones posted and they are not very convincing.

I'll even bet two years after there is little statistical significance in the stats (and that both sides will argue that each incident is not the same and must be looked at independently - and that won't work either) and that if it does not work there is no way in hell the requirement will be lifted/removed.
Even without stats..

have been a water safety instructor for over 35 years and spent 23 in the USCG operational and another 10 with assistance towing.

COMMON SENSE tells me that unexpected water entry has a higher likelyhood in death than just swimming...not swimming in rip currents or heavy surf...

The percentage of people that have been found alive at night after falling off their vessel is grim

Believe what you want...but I know the truth.

I hate the rules too...but they will be tough to argue against.
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Old 09-08-2011, 16:23   #113
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Re: Mandating Adult Life Jacket Wear

Quote:
Originally Posted by robertsapp View Post
OK, so let's see if this makes sense. Say this law passes. I leave my boat in my inflatable dinghy to row ashore. I'm not wearing a life jacket. I can be stopped by the Coast Guard and fined. However, if I jump off my boat and swim ashore, it's perfectly legal and there's nothing anyone can say about it. Does anyone besides me see a problem with this?

Oh, oh, I know - the law should only apply to people who can't swim! That way, the government can set up a mandatory boaters swim certification test (for a fee) and issue a government swim license (for a fee) that allows you to row ashore in your inflatable dinghy without having to wear a life jacket!
Just heard on the news yesterday that a man drowned >> swimming << across a lake. The reported made a point to say that he was not wearing a life jacket.

Life jacket required for swimming not too far off in the future.

--Ethan
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Old 09-08-2011, 16:27   #114
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Just heard too that a man drown while driving in SC flash flood. Seems to happen a lot. I think life jackets need to be worn while driving in rain.
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Old 09-08-2011, 16:28   #115
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Re: Mandating Adult Life Jacket Wear

OK,

If we are going to talk about statistics, let's talk about
1 - the percentage of people who drown while not wearing a PFD you were intoxicated.
2 - the number of people who drown who are under 18 but in the company of an adult who was intoxicated
3 - the number of people who drown while not wearing a PFD who had taken a boater safety course and still chose not to wear a PFD
the percentage of people who drown while not wearing a PFD at night
4 - the number of people who drown in sight of a law enforcement official

In short, if you are going to make a law that says you have to do something, let's take a look at how effective the law will be. Obviously, it is already illegal to operate a vessel while intoxicated, so adding a rule that says you have to wear a PFD will do very little good if the people who would be affected are already breaking the law. Similarly, if a large percentage of people who die do so at night, what good does making a law that people are going to be able to ignore because they can't be seen? On that note, how many people slow down when they pass a police cruiser and then speed up again when he is out of sight? What will stop a person from taking off the PFD after the Coast Guard/LLE is out of sight?

Or maybe we could just go with "how many people are operating boats who do not realize that wearing a PFD is a good idea"? Apparently, we've already educated everyone, so the only thing left to do is force people to do the smart thing! Sure - THAT'LL work!!
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Old 09-08-2011, 16:36   #116
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Re: Mandating Adult Life Jacket Wear

I still think adults who swim in pools should be required to wear life vets.
Every air breather should have life vests on.

If it is good enough for the dogs then...
http://media.patch.com/articles/shel...fety-is-a-must

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Old 09-08-2011, 16:38   #117
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I am developing the life jacket cam. Thanks for reminding me I need to add night vision capability and a flash. They will be mounted on navigation aids police cruisers and a few cormorants.now you will truly be safe but fined to death.
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Old 09-08-2011, 16:47   #118
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Re: Mandating Adult Life Jacket Wear

I need a civics lesson

Congress is the law-making body of the USA, elected by the People to represent the People in making these laws. Correct?

The CG is part of the Executive branch. Correct?

Some admiral, who was not elected by the people, makes a rule saying that I ,one of the People, has to wear a yellow (not blue or any other color) pokka-dot life jacket when I am on the water on my boat paid for with the money that the government has let me keep, or they will take more of my money (fine).

What authority does the admiral have to limit the liberty of one of the People? If you say that they are a law enforcement organization, how can they write the rules too. A state trooper or FBI agent can only enforce laws that a state or federal legslature pass. The head of the state police or FBI can't make up laws as they wish?

The president, also part of the executive branch, can issue an executive order, but as far as I understand it would only apply to other departments in the executive branch. Meaning the president cannot tell me to wear a life jacket or eat my broccli.

I think that it would be interesting to argue the issue in court. You have to pay court costs whether you show up or not, why not get some entertainment.

Any one of those 4.6 million smart lawyers willing to explain this to me?
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Old 09-08-2011, 16:48   #119
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Re: Mandating Adult Life Jacket Wear

Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
Even without stats..

have been a water safety instructor for over 35 years and spent 23 in the USCG operational and another 10 with assistance towing.

COMMON SENSE tells me that unexpected water entry has a higher likelyhood in death than just swimming...not swimming in rip currents or heavy surf...

The percentage of people that have been found alive at night after falling off their vessel is grim

Believe what you want...but I know the truth.

I hate the rules too...but they will be tough to argue against.

I know about common sense and you can't legislate that.

And what is your perception of the stats after this (the at night percentage). I believe it will still be grim.

I will believe what I want and will fight for what I believe in. Truth? It is only 400 a year right?

I don't think it is tough to argue this ridiculous broad brush idea.
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Old 09-08-2011, 16:53   #120
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Originally Posted by Morgan3820
I

Some admiral, who was not elected by the people, makes a rule saying that I ,one of the People, has to wear a yellow (not blue or any other color) pokka-dot life jacket
This is sooooo going to clash with doj's mankini.
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