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Old 11-08-2011, 19:05   #136
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Re: Mandating Adult Life Jacket Wear

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Originally Posted by Therapy View Post
I'm thinking something like this.

Is body paint as good as sunblock?
I have to take a good long look at that to see if it meets the requirement.
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Old 13-08-2011, 13:50   #137
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Ireland has a similar lifejacket law, basically under 16s on Deck and adults in open boats ( undecked). These are hostile cold waters and the rule has not met any resistance. The " personnel freedom" argument can be carried too far. Exemptions for swimming. My friends there see it as a good thing in general. ( zero enforcement of course )

A pal of mine commented that only the Irish could invent a law that forces an adult to leap from a perfectly good boat into the water at the sight of a policeman !!

Dave
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Old 13-08-2011, 14:46   #138
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Re: Mandating Adult Life Jacket Wear

Technically, in the USA it is Congress or State legislatures that make the laws -- but they tend to listen to the Coast Guard's recommendations, so if the Coast Guard decides to seek a law, it has a decent chance of passing in Congress or being adopted by the states. One potential problem with boating safety laws is that sailors are a minority and may not be consulted by the law-writers, resulting in laws that are a poor fit.

If search efforts are required, drowning is far and away not cheap for society.

I lost a dear friend a little more than a year ago last May as we were preparing for a regatta on an inland lake. It was unclear whether a heart attack contributed to his falling off the boat or followed upon it, but he fell off while holding onto a 12" plastic buoy. His grip failed and his body disappeared under the water within perhaps a minute or less while people were trying to rescue him, including a young adult swimming to him with a float (too far to throw from a boat anchored about 100 feet from where our friend fell overboard). Several boats were nearby and immediately tried to help. We were about a thousand feet away when our friend had gone overboard and were part of search efforts on that and subsequent days.

The initial search effort involved boats from the sailing club, state park rangers, and US CG auxiliary, who all reached the scene quickly. Later, state dive team members attempted to search for our friend's body, but were hampered by 50- to 120-foot depths, frequent high winds, and turbidity.

Despite extensive searching, it took 21 days before the process of decomposition proceeded far enough in the cold water to allow our friend's body to rise and be recovered. Twenty-one days of agony for his wife/widow, of her trying to get search efforts extended, of frustrations and dashed hopes with the limitations of the search process. 21 days of gradually withering hopes.

Finally, the body came up, about a mile from the site of the drowning. Fortunately, the cold lake water had partially preserved the body so it wasn't too gruesome for the park rangers and people who had to deal with the body.

Our loss has had effects that remain, even more than a year later. They are not trivial and have impacted many.

PS. A few days after the drowning, the victim's skipper, my wife, and the marina manager opened the our friend's seabag. Inside was a deluxe inflatable PFD, nearly new. Unworn, it hadn't exactly had a chance to keep our friend afloat and give people a chance to rescue him. Our friend who died was an extremely intelligent, educated, and experienced middle-aged professional, and not some impulsive kid with bad judgement. He made a costly decision that at the very least resulted in his body disappearing beneath the waves for three weeks, and at worst cost him his life... and his widow and others also paid part of the price.
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Old 15-08-2011, 16:56   #139
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Re: Mandating Adult Life Jacket Wear

This is absurd. One comment noted the extremely small percentage of incidents. Remember, when the government makes rules everyone loses some freedom. Laws are supposed to protect you from others, not you from yourself.

I have the misfortune of living under a police state here in New York City. At least we have it good in the bay but up the Hudson, the police are out of control, all under the guise of security and your safety. It is very common for people to be stopped four times a day and six or eight stops is not uncommon. They even told one editor of a boating magazine they had to stop him seven times to make sure he didn't get rid of his safety equipment between stops! You know, just in case a boater has too much money and wants to spend more on safety equipment.

Lewis and Clark went across the US in canoes and small boats with no PFDs and survived. How on earth did people survive in canoes, row boats, etc. these past four hundred years without the storm troopers enforcing absurd regulations? What's next and where does it end?
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Old 15-08-2011, 19:18   #140
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Re: Mandating Adult Life Jacket Wear

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This is absurd. One comment noted the extremely small percentage of incidents. Remember, when the government makes rules everyone loses some freedom. Laws are supposed to protect you from others, not you from yourself.

I have the misfortune of living under a police state here in New York City. At least we have it good in the bay but up the Hudson, the police are out of control, all under the guise of security and your safety. It is very common for people to be stopped four times a day and six or eight stops is not uncommon. They even told one editor of a boating magazine they had to stop him seven times to make sure he didn't get rid of his safety equipment between stops! You know, just in case a boater has too much money and wants to spend more on safety equipment.

Lewis and Clark went across the US in canoes and small boats with no PFDs and survived. How on earth did people survive in canoes, row boats, etc. these past four hundred years without the storm troopers enforcing absurd regulations? What's next and where does it end?

Therein lies the problem. IT DOESN'T END. It only gets worse.
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Old 16-08-2011, 01:15   #141
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Re: Mandating Adult Life Jacket Wear

About the issue of money and the coastie....

If the issue is that it costs a lot of money to rescue people....

And the fact that mandating life jackets will statistically decrease the number of rescue attempts is cited....

Make the PFD mandate tied to a reduction in funding for the coast guard.

The issue will vanish.

If the issue is about saving lives. Go ban salt, soda pop, refined sugars, and mandate daily mile runs. Its a better start than PFDs.
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Old 17-08-2011, 19:02   #142
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Re: Mandating Adult Life Jacket Wear

Please take a monent to consider this. Think a while. Is there any human activity or physical object so insignificant and trivial as to be unworthy of the attention of the Federal Government? Is there anything at all, no matter how small. Make a list and please post it in this thread.
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Old 17-08-2011, 19:11   #143
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Re: Mandating Adult Life Jacket Wear

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About the issue of money and the coastie....

If the issue is that it costs a lot of money to rescue people....

And the fact that mandating life jackets will statistically decrease the number of rescue attempts is cited....

Make the PFD mandate tied to a reduction in funding for the coast guard.

The issue will vanish.

If the issue is about saving lives. Go ban salt, soda pop, refined sugars, and mandate daily mile runs. Its a better start than PFDs.
good idea right up to the point of how the USCG is funded...then your argument falls apart....
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