Maltreatment By Homeland Security

[JPA Cate]

Hello everyone,

FWIW, I think one reason we get so excited about this is that it is ALWAYS scary to me [and I suspect, to others as well] when we are sailing, it is night, and we encounter an unlit boat. In the day time, we can see far, and sunlight helps our eyes pick up anomalies when they are a long way off. At night, suddenly you see a shadowy shape close by. We have to be ready to respond quickly to avoid a collision with the unknown vessel. Our bodies produce the adrenalin.

Now, someone who doesn't want to identify themselves wants to board us. No wonder feelings run high! How are we to distinguish an agency which doesn't identify from a pirate?

Now what I'd like to know, is do we know what agency boarded the OP? Has he ever heard back by telephone? or in writing?

Ann Cate, s/v Insatiable II, Port Cygnet, Tasmania

[St. Elsewhere]

[QUOTE=flink;1123171]The ninth circuit court of appeals has ruled that "night-time" boardings of vessels for routine safety checks constitutes "unreasonable" search./QUOTE]

If anyone would like to read the Ninth Circuit opinion, it is here: https://bulk.resource.org/courts.gov...8.78-2565.html.

This ruling was made 33 years ago. I would like to know it it has gone to the Supreme
Court, or if the other less liberal Circuit Courts have ruled otherwise, prior to relying on this information.

[forsailbyowner]

Update. I have been contacted by, in this order, customs and border patrol who referred the matter to the dea who contacted me and referred the matter to the coast guard who contacted me. The official from the coast guard with whom I spoke told me that I could expect a call from a homeland security official, this call never came. A representative from the Legislative branch that oversees this area has been contacted and his office said an inquiry would be started concerning this event. I will post again with this representatives name and contact information in case anybody would like to express their views or concerns to his office.

[flink]

I stand by my previous assertion that this was DHS.

I'll give 20:1 odds on $100.

Any takers??

Don?

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by flink

I stand by my previous assertion that this was DHS.

I'll give 20:1 odds on $100.

Any takers??

Don?

I don't understand why you feel the need to be directing any of this crap at me! You don't really know anything about me (BTW I'm a pretty long way from SS)

All I asked was whether we knew who did the boarding and that we avoid poltical rants. You want to have a political rant send a note to your elected officals and make your opinion know by voting!

But now based on the last couple of your posts, including the 1 that got deleted, I have an opinion of you and know what action to take.

[Lagoon4us]

Flink thanks for the insight, interesting looking from the outside as an amazed Aussie.

[Nicholson58]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

"Wouldn't it have been smarter to just hit them with a spotlight? "
Oh, come one. Go back even five years ago, now tell me what sailboat has a NightSun installed, much less any handheld spotlight that can compare to what a ship has mounted.

Last I heard, COLREGS applied to USCG and other vessels on patrol, as well as the rec sailors. If they're not identifying themselves and not responding, they shouldn't be surprised to be treated as potential hostiles. Guaranteed that's happened to them before.

Both correct. Try one of these or a not so pricey version from the same site (deck lighting). We also gave ourselves 800 lumen LED dive lights for Christmas.

LED Long Range Deck Spotlight 4800 lumen.

[flink]

Originally Posted by Don Lucas

I don't understand why you feel the need to be directing any of this crap at me! You don't really know anything about me (BTW I'm a pretty long way from SS)

All I asked was whether we knew who did the boarding and that we avoid poltical rants. You want to have a political rant send a note to your elected officals and make your opinion know by voting!

But now based on the last couple of your posts, including the 1 that got deleted, I have an opinion of you and know what action to take.

First off Don, I deleted the message shortly after posting it because I thought it was rude, un-fare, and un-called for.

This last post was merely a jest since the OP's latest report seemed to agree with my assertion. It was not intended as a swipe at you. I didn't intend to hurt any feelings.

[St. Elsewhere]

While looking for more current court rulings on USCG pleasure boat stops, I found this statistic:

"It appears from the record that in 1977, 330,534 pleasure craft were registered in the San Francisco Bay area and 3,245 were boarded by the Coast Guard, of which 40 percent were found not to be in compliance with safety regulations."

I expect that conducting boardings in open water may present greater safety risks than correcting minor non-compliance would prevent. Routine safety inspections should be done in marinas where they can be handled much more efficiently. The CG Auxiliary does them for free with volunteer labor. Tax payers need efficiency in such activity.

[Nicholson58]

I wonder if the OP or any of the others who have been approached were operating a Class B AIS? I know that the CG and any other law enforcement should be able to tell at a glance who and what we are. Does this make any difference?

Inland here on the Great Lakes, you are unlikely to be bothered by CG uless there are probably too many people on board without floatation on, especially children. We make sure everyone has a jacket and all 'young' people must whear one on deck or cockpit. We've never been bothered. We were approached by the black ops guys as we headed for Canada east of Mackinaw (North Channel). They were polite, asked where we were going and reminded us to check in on return.

The only real Johny-Law problems we had was from the Sherriff. One tried to get the race fleet to hove-to for inspections about 10 minutes into a spinnaker start off Cleveland. The resounding epethets from 30 or so boats sent him away. One other time the locals tried to stop all documented boats since they did not have OHIO "OH" numbers.

I once had the Sherriff pull behind my quarter while I was single-handing my Tornado Cat on Long Lake Near Traverse CIty. I was in the trapeeze and steering with my left armpit while operating the main (cleated), jib (cleated) and the spinnaker - live. I had a hull abur 3 feet off the water and the dope wanted to conduct an inspection. I was wearing my life jacket and a wet-suit. I also happened to be just above a lee shore on a gusty day. I told him to get lost and what he wanted would be unsafe and a hazzard to the boat. He threatened to arrest me. I said "go ahead, I'd love to discuss this and my broken boat in court with any sane human". He left me alone. You can see from the pictures that I probably had something illicit hidden aboard.

[rover88]

I recently read where boaters in the NE are giving up their passion due to constant and incessant stops and boarding by LE types ranging from the Coast Guard to the local PD and everyone in between. One poor fellow was boarded SIX times in a single day aboard a small pleasure craft.

This is a hot topic for sure and I dare not render an opinion, lest it be promptly removed by the moderators. Suffice it to say I am in full agreement with some of the more freedom loving and disheartened Americans posting here.

What I will say is that all we can do now is to inundate our Congressmen and local officials each and every time we are stopped (except for legitimate Coast Guard inspections) and complain, complain, complain. Then write a letter to the editor of your local rag.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Could have been Al-Quaeda doing a recce.......

[goboatingnow]

Why in the name of god would someone be boarded six times in a day ??


Dave

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by rover88

I recently read where boaters in the NE are giving up their passion due to constant and incessant stops and boarding by LE types ranging from the Coast Guard to the local PD and everyone in between. One poor fellow was boarded SIX times in a single day aboard a small pleasure craft.

Where in the NE as I haven't heard any of this and I boat from the middle of it. It fact I didn't hear in the marina of a single stop/boarding at all last year! I have only ever even saw 2, which were on the same day and it was without doubt a training thing.

I think even if true that this is a pretty localized thing.

[flink]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

Could have been Al-Quaeda doing a recce.......

Good point. In fact, it was probably an Al Qaeda/DHS joint task force. You can rcognize them by the prayer rugs (a.k.a flying carpets) in the back of their boats.

They were likely just looking for WMD.